An interview with Mr. Adnan Oktar by Ary TV (Pakistan) (November 22, 2008)

You can read the transcript of this video

REPORTER : Bismillahirrahmanirrahim. Harun Yahya, Assalamu Alaikum.

ADNAN OKTAR : Wa aleyna alaikum salam wa Rahmatullahu.

REPORTER : I would first like to thank you for agreeing to an interview on our ARY TV station. We know you from your books, which you have written on many subjects. But we would like to know you from your life, to know you better. Tell us of your life. Where were you born? We hear that your real name is Adnan Oktar. We would like to know about your education, where you were born and where you have passed through. In brief would be nice.

ADNAN OKTAR : Yes, insha’Allah. I was born in Ankara on February 2, 1956. I am a Caucasian sayyid. I am descended from the Prophet (saas). I am descended from Hazrat Hassan. I attended primary, middle and high school in Ankara. But I attended university in Istanbul. I won a place at the Findikli Academy of Fine Arts in 1979. I came to Istanbul that year and studied in that school until 1983, after which I transferred to the Istanbul University Philosophy Department. I continued my studies there. I then continued with my book works. And my CD works and the activities you have seen.

REPORTER : What faculty was first?

ADNAN OKTAR: The Findikli Academy of Fine Arts.

REPORTER : Fine Arts?

ADNAN OKTAR: Fine Arts. Interior Design Department.

REPORTER : It would seem you were more interested in social subjects, but you later began working on science.

ADNAN OKTAR: Yes.

REPORTER : Did you receive any special training for that. How did you transfer to subjects such as chemistry, physics and biology?

ADNAN OKTAR: I have a research team of some 30 people. These include associate professors and expert researchers. I have many friends. I interpret and arrange the data they bring me ready prepared, and I also take the photographs I ask them for and produce my books in that way. That is how I work.

REPORTER : I also want to ask whether you received any special religious education.

ADNAN OKTAR: No, I just read Said Nursi’s Risale-i Nur collection and the Maktubat (Letters) of Imam Rabbani. I read Imam Gazzali. In other words, I educated myself.

REPORTER : I want to ask this as a matter of great importance, but did you plan this beforehand? I mean was it already in your mind to work on such subjects, or did events lead you in that direction? What encouraged you toward scientific activities?

ADNAN OKTAR: It had of course been in my mind ever since high school. I was opposed to freemasonry, to fascism and communism and thus also to Darwinism. But I was investigating them at that time. In my high school years I was just reading about them. I lacked the requisite knowledge, but I thought I would do such a thing when I had the opportunity in the future.

REPORTER : It appears that two main subjects had a particular impact on you, freemasonry and Darwin’s theory. We will move on to the subject of freemasonry, insha’Allah, but I would first like to discuss Darwin with you.

In other words, Harun Yahya has done a lot of work when it comes to the rejection of Darwinism, and the whole world knows about that. You brought out the evidence with which to reject it. In other words, you did not just say you don’t believe in it, you also produced the evidence. What kind of evidence did you produce in rejecting Darwin’s theory? We would like to discuss that evidence a bit.

ADNAN OKTAR: The most important evidence in the rejection of Darwinism is fossils. One hundred million fossils have been found. And all those 100 million fossils, not just as few of them, prove Creation. Five or 10 pieces of evidence are enough to prove something, aren’t they? But we have not 1000 or 200 thousand, but a full 100 million pieces of evidence. If we look at a fossil we see it has never changed. That evidence is clear enough for a 7-year-old child to see. There is no need for anything else.

REPORTER : He is speaking about chromosomes.

REPORTER : The second thing, he is saying, from what we have read. The number of chromosomes in a living cell always remains the same, at all stages. A human being has 46. If someone had 44 or 48 that person would no longer be human, and you say that this does not change. Is that right?

ADNAN OKTAR: Yes, that is right.

REPORTER : This is a subject regarded as evidence.

ADNAN OKTAR : Yes.

REPORTER : The people who believe in Darwin have a theory to do with Darwinism. There is the Qur’an’s theory of Creation. I want to ask you, there is Darwin’s theory and the Qur’an’s. He is asking whether there is a different theory to the Qur’an’s and how the Qur’an looks at Darwin’s theory.

ADNAN OKTAR: Allah tells us in a verse that He commands a thing to “Be!” and it is. Living things were created momentarily. Allah creates at the moment of His choosing.

REPORTER : The Qur’an speaks of Creation, of creating. Does it not favor evolutionary development?

ADNAN OKTAR: No, there is no such thing in the Qur’an. The Prophet Adam. Allah first created him like a clay model. He then gave him a soul and the Prophet Adam suddenly came to life. That is all. But there is no gradual development.

REPORTER : It refers to that clay, to a different stage after that clay. Could it be referring to the cell? Did Almighty Allah created the prophet Adam from that cell, or directly?

ADNAN OKTAR: No. It is like those stone models we are familiar with. A normal statue in human form was made. This also applies to the subject of the Prophet Jesus. Allah says that the Prophet Jesus made a bird out of clay. He made something in the form of a bird out of clay. Then when he breathed on it, it became a bird and flew off.

REPORTER : In other words, soil is mentioned in the creation of Adam, and clay is mentioned somewhere, and somewhere else refers to hardened clay. Can these not be regarded as different stages?

ADNAN OKTAR: No, it is a structure made out of normal earth and clay. Artists make human figures out of clay. It is the same. They first take the clay and mix it with water, giving it a muddy consistency, and then shape it into the form of a living thing.

REPORTER : So these are three different forms of the same thing? I ask because this appears in the Qur’an.

ADNAN OKTAR: No, they are the same thing. Clay is taken and softened and made into a human form. Then Allah breathes His spirit into it and it comes to life. And these things happen, not because Allah needs them, but solely for people to see it as good. Allah did this so that such a mindset would result. Otherwise, Allah creates directly. We are basically created at every moment. You and I are constantly being created. There is the creation now, instant creation. In other words, we are being created moment by moment, second by second.

REPORTER : Mr. Harun Yahya, you speak of creation therefore, and that can be seen in the Qur’an. Have you ever looked at the Injil? How is the subject treated in the Injil, in earlier books?

ADNAN OKTAR: More or less the same, the same accounts.

REPORTER : You mean there is no reference to the theory of evolution anywhere in the Injil?

ADNAN OKTAR: No, nothing of the sort.

REPORTER : We in any case do not believe it, not according to the Qur’an, but how is it that the Western, Christian world can believe in Darwinism when the Injil, their own book, never even mentions the theory of evolution?

ADNAN OKTAR: Yes, they have to adopt some kind of logic since they do not believe in Allah. They talked about space beings, but there was no logic in that. Nobody would believe in that, and if they said something else they imagined, in their own eyes, that nobody would believe it. They chose this option as the most illogical of all. There was in any case no alternative to illogicality if they wanted to say that Allah does not exist. In other words, they adopted this path out of despair, since they do not believe in Allah, but they don’t really believe in it.

REPORTER : So these are their aims or benefits from spreading this theory, the theory of evolution. Do they have direct links with capitalism?

ADNAN OKTAR: It is the root of fascism, communism and savage capitalism, of course. In other words, there could be no fascism or communism without Darwin’s theory of evolution. Nor savage capitalism. This exists at their basis, in their philosophy, in order for them to develop.

REPORTER : We would like to discuss the Big Bang, the great explosion behind the creation of the Earth.

ADNAN OKTAR: Yes.

REPORTER : In other words, creation or the formation of the Earth with this huge explosion. Does any faith or school or religious conception support this?

ADNAN OKTAR: Of course. For one thing, Allah says in the Qur’an that He creates from nothing. That is an exact match. Because scientists say it emerged from a point of zero volume and infinite density. At first, they say, there was no space or time. They say that time and space came into being with the Big Bang. That is in complete agreement with the Qur’an.

REPORTER : Verse 21 of Surat al-Anbiya’ says “Or have they taken the gods out of the earth who can bring the dead to life?”

ADNAN OKTAR: True.

REPORTER : Could that be a reference to that explosion?

ADNAN OKTAR: Of course. It is quite explicit. The Qur’an describes it quite clearly. The Qur’an says that the Earth was covered in smoke, and that this sky was then formed. Exactly the same as the Big Bang theory. 1400 years ago. The Big Bang theory is only recent, but the Qur’an revealed this 1400 years ago. The Qur’an says that time and space were created subsequently. But they denied that and said time and space had been around for ever. Then they admitted that what the Qur’an said was true.

REPORTER : Beyond time and space, can we regard anything as being outside time and space today? Any force or entity?

ADNAN OKTAR: Allah is beyond time and space. Time and space are for human beings. Allah is not bound by time or space, He has no need of them. Allah is outside time and space, if that is what the gentleman was asking.

REPORTER : Is any other power apart from Almighty Allah visible at the moment?

ADNAN OKTAR: There is no other power than Allah.

REPORTER : Nothing outside time and space?

ADNAN OKTAR: Another entity?

REPORTER : Entity or power or anything.

ADNAN OKTAR: Of course not. Only Allah.

REPORTER : Whatever the subject you provide evidence about, you always produce evidence from the Qur’an, but you never use the hadith as evidence of anything. Is there any particular reason for that, or do you not regard the hadith as evidence? Is that case, or is there some specific reason?

ADNAN OKTAR: The hadith are widely used in books, but there is of course no need for the hadith on a subject that is fully clarified by the Qur’an. The hadith can be used for things the Qur’an does not discuss. The relativity of time, for instance, is clearly set out in the Qur’an. And it is enough to set out the evidence found in the Qur’an. But when there are hadith that also confirm this then I certainly use them in my books. I use the hadith when they are corroborative.

REPORTER : Have you been a Muslim since birth, or did you convert?

ADNAN OKTAR: I am a Muslim from birth.

REPORTER : I forgot to say that you are a sayyid.

ADNAN OKTAR: Yes, I am a sayyid, descended from the Prophet (saas).

REPORTER : Masha’Allah.

ADNAN OKTAR: Masha’Allah

REPORTER : Let us now move on to the second matter, that of the freemasons. It is something you discuss and concentrate on very much. I know you wrote a book about the masons in 1989.

ADNAN OKTAR: Yes.

REPORTER : And they put you in prison at the time of that book, where you spent 8-10 months.

ADNAN OKTAR: Yes.

REPORTER : We then heard you had been transferred to a mental hospital for compulsory treatment. What was that all about? Could you make a statement on that?

ADNAN OKTAR: Yes, I happened to be arrested at the same time as my book Judaism and Freemasonry came out. I was detained, but there were no legitimate grounds. Because I was later let go. I was detained for saying, “I am from the Turkish people and from the nation of Islam.” I was held for 9 months and acquitted 19 months later. For saying that. I was held in a cell for 9 months and then for 10 months in a mental hospital with 300 mental patients. They told me to think of myself as a mental patient. The patients killed 7 people during my time there. They held me there for 10 months among mental patients as aggressive as that. Then I was described mentally ill in the press for years thereafter. Then the military hospital issued a report saying I was sane. Then I was freed.

REPORTER : Maybe these matters were discussed in the Justice Department. You said, “I am of the Turkish people and the nation of Islam.” Is that really why they put you inside, or was it for something different?

ADNAN OKTAR: Such things have been happening non-stop ever since I embarked on my struggle. And they are still going on today.

REPORTER : What did you say in this book Judaism and Freemasonry, what was the purpose behind it?

ADNAN OKTAR: I described the system of the dajjal, the secret state that governs the world. I described how atheist Zionism and freemasonry go hand in hand. I described how they are striving to establish an atheist system and to eliminate faith from the world, and thus how they are striving to eliminate Muslims from the world.

REPORTER : So from what you say, this is a movement resulting from a union between atheists, Jews and masons. Their aim is to marginalize Allah and religion. They must have a final purpose. What is that ultimate objective, in your opinion?

ADNAN OKTAR: They are doing it because shaytan commands them to.

REPORTER : Why does shaytan want them to do this?

ADNAN OKTAR: Shaytan wants everyone to be like him and to go to hell.

REPORTER : So Judaism, freemasonry and atheists are obeying shaytan, so they are people who are followers of shaytan?

ADNAN OKTAR: Atheist Zionists and freemasons think the same. I am not referring to devout, religious Jews when I say this. Surely they are beyond this. They are known as the People of the Book. I am referring to the atheist Zionists who follow shaytan.

REPORTER : Are you saying there are only a few Jews following in shaytan’s footsteps?

ADNAN OKTAR: There are a great many. The Torah describes in great detail how they will follow shaytan.

REPORTER : That one-sentence answer of yours was most excellent. Shaytan wants people to be like him and to go to hell. But do those who follow him also have worldly aims, such as power, or wealth, or to hold the reins of power for themselves?

ADNAN OKTAR: Masons use that power, but their real aim is to do what shaytan tells them. They use that power to make what shaytan tells them to do happen.

REPORTER : You referred to Jerusalem in one of your writings.

ADNAN OKTAR: Yes.

REPORTER : To Jerusalem being a free city and for the members of all three faiths to be able to worship there. For Jews, Christians and Muslims to be free. What do you think about this conflict between Israel and Palestine, do expect a joint solution?

ADNAN OKTAR: This is something that will only be eliminated in the time of Hazrat Mahdi (as). The whole Islamic world will be united in the time of Hazrat Mahdi (as). Jerusalem will also come under Muslim control. But in the same way that the People of the Book, Christians and Jews, were able to worship there in the time of our Prophet (saas), so they will be able to again. They lived side by side with Muslims and will do so again. There is nothing complicated about that.

REPORTER : So you are saying there can be no solution regarding Palestine before the coming of Hazrat Mahdi (as)?

ADNAN OKTAR: They cannot build Islamic Union without Hazrat Mahdi (as), they cannot.

REPORTER : I am asking about the liberation of Palestine.

ADNAN OKTAR: Palestine may be partly liberated, but full liberation will come in the time of Hazrat Mahdi (as), insha’Allah.

REPORTER : Indeed, we see this in books and hadith, how the Ummah will enjoy a much better position everywhere with the coming of Hazrat Mahdi (as). And the hadith speak of “let there be nowhere, not a house or even a tent, inside which someone does not say ‘La ilahe illallah Muhammeden RasullAllah’.”

ADNAN OKTAR : True.

REPORTER : In other words, Islam will enter every single home, and that is fine. But have you any suggestions for the current situation? Can you suggest a solution whereby this oppression in Palestine can be lifted, to improve the current situation between Israel and Palestine, to improve the current position of Muslims?

ADNAN OKTAR : Yes, I have the idea of a Turkish-Islamic Union, and I describe it in all Muslims and Turkic countries. Just about all the countries currently support it. Everyone agrees with it.

REPORTER : What union was that?

ADNAN OKTAR: The Turkish-Islamic union. A Turkish-Islamic Union led by Turkey and supported by the Turkic states. I describe in detail, in my books or in newspaper notices, how Christians, Jews and Muslims will all live at ease under that idea. And from what I have seen, all the Turkic state support this. I meet with leading members of Islamic countries, and they want it, too. I have met with Syrians, for example, and Iraqis, Morocco, Tunisia and Algeria, all of them say it will be a very good and auspicious thing, insha’Allah.

REPORTER : And it will be good for Palestine.

ADNAN OKTAR: Of course. It will be resolved automatically in Palestine, insha’Allah.

REPORTER : In other words, like the Ottoman model.

ADNAN OKTAR: Yes, like a modern Ottoman Empire.

REPORTER : So we can think about it as unity among Muslims, as you have just said. There are efforts being made to bring this about in different areas. There is the Organization of the Islamic Conference (OIC), the Islamic Bank, the Islamic Union, an institution continuing under the chairmanship of Ekmeleddin ihsanoğlu. But generally speaking, Muslim intellectuals in Islamic countries are of the opinion that it is very passive, not really a lot of use. In other words, how can this union be an active one? They are trying to make it so. This is the institution now with 57 member Muslim countries, but it is not active enough. What do you think?

ADNAN OKTAR: We will work very hard for this, and a great number of countries already support it. But let me tell you the essence of the matter – this will be completely resolved with the coming of Hazrat Mahdi (as).

REPORTER : Looking at the present state of affairs, all Muslim countries do seem to be divided. Arabs and Iranians and the rest, and every country has its own interests. There are activities aimed toward the West. How can we make things more active in the present context? What is possible? The axis of Muslim countries, of their elites and rules, is pro-American. That is the situation. Given this situation, how and to what extent can we create Muslim union? We are ready to do it, but how?

ADNAN OKTAR: What I am saying will happen in the next 10 years or so, let me tell you that. This is certain, insha’Allah. We see it is certain from verses and hadith, from descriptions by Said Nursi, from sociological developments and the course of history. We may say it is certain, insha’Allah.

REPORTER : One subject that has caused a lot of stir across the world in recent years is that of “inter-faith dialogue.” Is this necessary? And if so what line should it take. I mean, what should the program be? What subjects should it be included in, and which other not? Are there or should there be areas in which it does not apply?

ADNAN OKTAR: For example, we may have a Jewish or Christian neighbor and can invite them round and dine and talk together. I can marry a Christian or a Jewish girl. We speak together of the existence of Allah, and that is the dialogue. There can be no dialogue outside that.

REPORTER : The dialogue being discussed now.

ADNAN OKTAR: If that is what is being referred to, it is an excellent thing. If they are referring to what I have said, but if there is a diabolical objective, than that is unacceptable.

REPORTER : The three faiths known as the Abrahamic religions are all accepted. They all regard Abraham as a prophet. Could we take that as common ground, a unifying point, for our actions?

ADNAN OKTAR: Of course, the Prophet Abraham, and also the Prophet Moses and the Prophet Muhammad (saas) .

REPORTER : But not those tending to polytheism. I mean, if Jews and Christians say we can all unite around the Prophet Abraham, we have to make that clear to them. We have to explain that the Prophet Abraham was not a pagan and had no polytheistic tendencies, so you must also abandon your polytheism.

ADNAN OKTAR: True, yes.

REPORTER : There is a subject in the Holy Qur’an that is used for inter-faith dialogue. Almighty Allah tells us to unite around a single point that we all agree on.

ADNAN OKTAR: Yes.

REPORTER : But in the next passage He says that this must be on condition they do not ascribe equals to Allah and accept Allah is the source of revelation. In other words, if we are to have inter-faith dialogue today we can still refer to that verse. Yes, come and we can talk about what we have in common, but on one condition, that you renounce polytheism.

REPORTER : That verse must apply.

ADNAN OKTAR: Masha’Allah.

REPORTER : He says that Himself. What do you say?

ADNAN OKTAR: The oneness of Allah is of course the essential precondition for a Muslim. If they agree to that, then of course contacts and dialogue are possible. But if they do not, then we can again talk and try to win them over. We cannot turn our backs just because they reject that.

REPORTER : I would like to ask a special question. About Ataturk and the Republican Revolution, and the matter of the secular nature of the Turkish nation. The Turkish Republic was launched as a secular republic. With secularism, that old Islamic flavor was lost from within the Turkish nation. Would you say that Ataturk did that, and was it beneficial or harmful for the Turkish nation? I would like to learn your views on that.

ADNAN OKTAR: Ataturk gave us the commentary on the Qur’an by the famous scholar Hamdi Yazir of Elmali. He ordered this should be made available to the public. He had the Sahih-i Bukhari commentary produced. He established the Religious Affairs Directorate. He issued statements full of fervor and love of Allah and our Prophet (saas). I look at all this evidence and can easily see he was a Muslim. I conclude he was a Muslim, and I believe he was one.

REPORTER : My question was also about whether secularism was a beneficial or harmful thing for the Turkish nation.

ADNAN OKTAR: Secularism eliminates hypocrisy. In a secular environment, if one is a Muslim one will openly state that he is a Muslim, a Christian can say he is a Christian, and someone who is irreligious can say he is irreligious. What I am talking about is being free. It is living by whatever one’s beliefs are. If someone is a pagan then he is a pagan, and we cannot force him to be a Muslim. We cannot force a Christian to become a Muslim. They all live by their own beliefs.

REPORTER : You referred to the Turkish-Islamic Union.

ADNAN OKTAR: Yes.

REPORTER : There will be serious developments regarding the formation of that union in the next 10 years. So do you want the world you are dreaming of, the Islamic world, to be based on a secular system?

ADNAN OKTAR: In the system I am talking about, states will remain independent. Every state will be separate, like a republic. Iran will preserve its own regime, as will Turkey. But there will be Islamic moral values and Islamic solidarity. In other words, the communities within the state decide on the state regime. For example, the system in Iran will continue, and there will be no outside interference. The system in Turkey will also continue, and there will be no external intervention in that.

REPORTER : So there is no question of all the Muslim countries having the same system at that time.

ADNAN OKTAR: No.

REPORTER: I want to ask this about jihad. What do you think on the subject? People, Muslims, are being persecuted in various parts of the world, and women and children are in a terrible state. Should Muslims there wage jihad? What kind of jihad? What do you think?

ADNAN OKTAR: Yes, if the Turkish-Islamic Union is founded nobody will persecute anyone, that is out of the question. It will have a deterrent force and resolve the matter completely. So there will be no need for such local interventions.

REPORTER : So the present situation will persist until this union forms. In 10 or 20 years. Does there need to be any activity to that end?

ADNAN OKTAR: Cultural activity would be more effective. Intellectual activity. Because the struggle against Darwinism is of vital importance. We must first destroy the system of the dajjal as an idea. Once it has been defeated intellectually its teeth will be drawn and it will be harmless. That is why the intellectual struggle is so important.

REPORTER : Does it say anywhere in the Qur’an that there should be no jihad in the absence of union or that we should wait until that union comes about? The Qur’an issues a number of commandments about jihad, and we even see commands regarding jihad in the sense of killing.

ADNAN OKTAR: Yes.

REPORTER : What do you think about this?

ADNAN OKTAR: We need to take the life of our prophet (saas) as a model. In the early years, as you know, our Prophet (saas) attached most importance to preaching the word. They insulted him and threw thorns in front of him. They even threw camel entrails over him. Muslims were sworn at and beaten, but they had an effect on them just through preaching. And when things got too bad they migrated. Because they were not sufficiently strong. That is why a Muslim must act according to the path trodden by the Prophet (saas).

REPORTER: Referring to the post-Meccan period; Muslims were still weak in Medina at the time of the battle of Badr; 313 people were involved at Badr. They were relatively weaker than the other side still. But they waged jihad in the physical sense. Allah reveals in the Qur’an, in Surat al-Anfal, that He sent down angels during the Battle of Badr. He even says that He killed those who were killed, not them. In other words, Allah says that the fact you are few in numbers is no reason not to engage in jihad, but that He does what really needs to be done. Iqbal reads a poem on the subject of angels being sent down. Establish that climate now. They are reading Iqbal’s poem in the sense of angels being ready to come down now.

ADNAN OKTAR: Iqbal’s poem is very important. Bring that state about, it says, but it has not come about yet. Now, it is like the transitional stage of the Meccan period. In other words, it has not come about yet. In any case, if such a devout generation does emerge, kuffur will dissolve away all on its own. It will fade away intellectually and spiritually. It will have no more strength.

REPORTER : That is very excellent, what you said. We agree that this state cannot come about without there being faith. Now, when we look at all Islamic countries, can we see the slightest trace of such a faith either now, or in the future, in the lives of our rulers and administrators?

ADNAN OKTAR: My opinion is that Hazrat Mahdi (as) has already appeared. And his followers and ideas have begun influencing the world. That is the main reason for this growth of faith and the excitement in the world. Allah is using him as His instrument. Like light from the sun hitting a mirror and bouncing off that and striking another mirror and spreading in that way. Hazrat Mahdi (as) is being instrumental in this religious fertility, these rays of salvation.

REPORTER : So we do not need to look at the leaders in place at the moment.

ADNAN OKTAR: No, they are of no importance. The system of the Mahdi (as) is growing in secret, insha’Allah.

REPORTER : You have spoken about Hazrat Mahdi (as). I am going to refer back to Iqbal. Iqbal imparts such a meaning in some of his poems. When a community or a nation is weak and powerless they always imagine such things, always harbor the idea of a savior. That is our complete belief, that Hazrat Mahdi (as) will come, but should we just sit back and wait for him? What is our real duty? What should we cling to?

ADNAN OKTAR: I am awaiting the coming of Hazrat Mahdi (as) and the Prophet Jesus, for instance. But I am also tearing kuffur down with all my might, and I have set all Europe at loggerheads. I have destroyed Darwinism in Europe. The level of people who believe in Allah and reject Darwinism in Turkey stands at 90%, the highest level in Europe. In other words, Turkey has the highest level of rejection of Darwinism. That has happened through our activities. Allah has made me His instrument. I do not just sit and wait, you see, insha’Allah.

REPORTER : You have engaged in some excellent activities regarding Darwinism. But do you wonder whether this work on Darwinism, whether the deen will grow solely because it is left to Allah. Almighty Allah says that the only acceptable faith in His sight is Islam. Will this perspective emerge victorious all through the world by just this work?. Do you think about it? I mean, will this expectation of Almighty Allah arise from us by solely this movement?

ADNAN OKTAR: As you know, the Prophet Moses first smashed the Golden Calf and threw it into the sea. The Prophet Abraham smashed idols with an axe. That is what I do. I first smash the idols and then tell people about Islam. And Islam is now spreading like wildfire, thanks be to Allah. Masha’Allah.

REPORTER : You have spoken about Abraham and Moses. But we have the example of our Prophet (saas). The 40 years before he became a prophet. Someone who became ‘loyal, certain’ during that life. Then his prophethood began. The first 13 years of the prophethood were spent in religious work. Then shortly after the hegira to Medina the orders for jihad and military activity began and this continued right until the end. What do you draw from this example? What kind of a model is it for the Ummah or for us?

ADNAN OKTAR: When our Prophet (saas) entered Medina he first smashed the idols. The idols of today, of the system of the dajjal, is Darwinism. Just like our Prophet (saas), I first shattered those idols and then, like him, began preaching the word.

REPORTER : Our Prophet smashed some 360 idols. But he conquered Mecca before smashing the idols.

ADNAN OKTAR: Yes.

REPORTER : There were a few conquests and battles, jihad, before the capture of Mecca. There was jihad before the smashing of the idols. I mean, do you think it is enough to wage this jihad with philosophy, reason and ideas alone?

ADNAN OKTAR: For now, of course. When the appropriate foundation forms, when there is a powerful faith infrastructure and a devout generation emerges, this will have an impact on everything. It will impact on government and on social structure. It will naturally make itself felt everywhere.

REPORTER : What I mean is, it is as if the whole Meccan world is going through a Meccan phase.

ADNAN OKTAR: Yes.

REPORTER : I mean something happened between the Muslim world and the Western Christian world after the events of September 11 in America. A diametrically opposed hostility emerged. The Muslim world now has to think very hard. Should the conflict with the West continue, or should it come to an understanding or else wait on the sidelines? What should we do to get out of the situation we are in?

ADNAN OKTAR: : Yes, devout Christians, Jews and Muslims must form an alliance against atheism and the system of the dajjal.

REPORTER : The conflict that emerged between them after September 11.

ADNAN OKTAR: : We must scrupulously avoid conflict. We must draw all devout Christians and Jews to the Muslims’ sides, because the real issue is the atheism in the world. The system of the dajjal has declared war on Allah. But they believe in Allah. The People of the Book believe in Allah and love Him. And those who believe in Allah must be allied against His enemies, but this must remain on the level of ideas.

REPORTER : Some 6-8 years have gone by since September 11, and it would seem that Muslims have made some mistakes over that period of time. There must have been some. What errors should Muslims avoid? What should they have avoided that they did not? What kind of advice can you offer on that?

ADNAN OKTAR: : Yes, the religion will progress very nicely with ideas, not through violence. Civilized people, be they in Europe, are always open to suggestion. Had the money set aside for arms been spent on books the results would be very clear. People are converting to Islam in droves in Britain , and in Europe. In other words, they accept when it is explained to them and they are convinced when shown sound evidence. It is enough for there to be people living as genuine Muslims and for their explanations to be rational and satisfying. My books are having a huge, huge impact in Europe at the moment, and almost all Muslim groups are using them. In other words, no matter what sect or community they belong to, they are all agreed on my books, Alhamdulillah, Masha’Allah. They use them for preaching the word and obtain excellent results. That is the right thing to do, instead of bombing and threatening people. It means preaching the religion by showing people love and respect, and Allah shows we can obtain good results from this.

REPORTER : Killing oneself, suicide attacks, have become very prevalent in recent years in our country, Pakistan and in Iraq. What do you say about this? Do you think this is at all acceptable in Islam?

ADNAN OKTAR: : Suicide is a sin, and that is a clear rule in Islam. Rather than killing other people and oneself it is better to let other people and oneself live. They can go and preach the word and spend the money on books instead of bombs and hand those around and convince people in that way. Allah has not made people very resistant in the face of the religion, but bestows salvation on them. And people become Muslims. I sent my books to Sarkozy and to Tony Blair. And despite being Darwinists and materialists, and a Darwinist and socialist in Tony Blair’s case, they have completely changed their ideas.

Tony Blair, for instance, says, “I read the Qur’an in the evenings,” and says that he has given copies of the Qur’an to famous artists. He says he gave a copy of the Qur’an to Bono, the soloist from the famous band U2.

It is the same with Nicolas Sarkozy, who says, “Almighty Allah is in everyone’s hearts and ideas.” He says he believes in Allah.

REPORTER : Yes.

ADNAN OKTAR : Yes, masha’Allah, he says, “It is Allah who makes people free and not prisoners.” And, “Allah is a rampart against people’s infinite pride and madness.” He talks about it at length. He is a complete believer.

REPORTER : Do you see Islamic civilization, Islamic culture, Islamic socio-culture in the entire Islamic world at present?

ADNAN OKTAR : It has not come about yet.

REPORTER : But you are still optimistic for the future of the Islamic world despite not seeing this at the moment?

ADNAN OKTAR: : We can see this from the pace of developments. There is growing development.

REPORTER : So tomorrow will be bright.

ADNAN OKTAR: : Very definitely.

REPORTER : So our tomorrows, the tomorrows of Muslims will be very bright.

ADNAN OKTAR: : Keep this film and watch it 10 years later, insha’Allah. It is very clear and certain, insha’Allah.

REPORTER : You have hope and you give hope, and this is an excellent thing. Let me ask you one last question. Do you want to see Turkey in the European Union in the future. I mean, do you want to see it collaborating with the Islamic world or something else? What would you like to see in terms of Turkey’s future?

ADNAN OKTAR: : For one thing, this is not just a hope. It is absolute fact. Our Prophet (saas) speaks with revelation and describes the events of the End Times, and everything he said is happening. Our Prophet (saas) said that Afghanistan would be invaded, and that happened. He said Iraq would be occupied and that happened, and our Prophet (saas) also says these things will happen at the same time. This is a great miracle. A miracle to rock the world. He says there will be solar and lunar eclipses in the month of Ramadan, at 15-day intervals, and that happened. He says a comet will be seen at the same time, and that happened. He says the waters of the Euphrates will be stopped, and that also happened. He says blood will be spilled where the waters of the Euphrates are stopped. And that happened, as well. He gives details about Iran, Afghanistan and the whole Islamic world and says this is a sign of the coming of Hazrat Mahdi (as). This is not a hope, it is a certainty.

REPORTER : I am not sure I received an answer to the second part of the question. Where do you want to see Turkey? Like the EU or the OIC. You dream of and speak about Islamic Union in a different form. So do you see it in a different position?

ADNAN OKTAR: : For the last year there have been major developments in terms of Turkey being the leader of the Turkish-Islamic Union. If you have time I can describe them in detail. There is a great deal of evidence showing that Turkish-Islamic Union is developing very fast, and I speak with people from Azerbaijan, high-ranking people, and they want to see it. I speak to Syria and they want it. The formation of the Turkish-Islamic Union is now just a matter of time, and Turkey will join the EU as the leader of the Turkish-Islamic Union.

REPORTER : So Turkey will be in the EU and also in the entire body of Islam?

ADNAN OKTAR : Yes.

REPORTER : This another matter, but the EU has never allowed Turkey to join so far; they always impose conditions, but you still want it despite all these preconditions.

ADNAN OKTAR: : But in that event there will be no imposition, and they will beg Turkey to join.

REPORTER : A final request. Have you a message for the Islamic world?

ADNAN OKTAR: : Insha’Allah. I can quote a few verses from the Qur’an, and we can do it that way. Verse 159 of Surat an-Nisa says, “There is not one of the People of the Book who will not believe in him before he dies.” That is a reference to the coming of the Prophet Jesus.

REPORTER : Surat an-Nisa?

ADNAN OKTAR: : Yes, verse 159: “There is not one of the People of the Book who will not believe in him before he dies.” In other words, the whole world will believe in the Prophet Jesus. He says the Prophet Jesus will be a Muslim when he comes and will make the whole world Muslim, and this verse is proof of the global dominion of Islam.

REPORTER : Jesus?

ADNAN OKTAR : Yes, when he comes. He first lived by the Torah, and then abided by the Injil. This time, he will abide by the Qur’an and will call everyone, all Christians, to the Qur’an.

REPORTER : What message are you sending by this?

ADNAN OKTAR: The global dominion of Islam in the years ahead is absolutely certain. Muslims must strive with all their might, loving and fearing Allah, with honesty and sincerity, but they can also relax in the knowledge that the global dominion of Islam is certain. And they are the vanguard, and I congratulate all Muslims on that, insha’Allah,

Our Prophet (saas) says that his time was wondrous and that the End Times will be wondrous. And there is even now a Muslim community worthy of the praise of our Prophet (saas), insha’Allah. By wondrous, he means amazingly superior and valuable, insha’Allah.

We shall be patient. We will spread Islam across the whole world through culture, art and science, insha’Allah. Through art and science and above all, the Qur’an.

2008-11-18 13:12:22

Harun Yahya's Interviews and Conversations ⇒