MR. MAC: We are going to have a very special guest on the radio. And that’s in just a little while and I don’t pronounce his name very well. Oktar. Anyway we have an amazing guest and a very intelligent gentleman and he’s calling in from Istanbul.

MR. McROBERTS: Istanbul, Turkey.

MR. MAC: And Rabbi Kaufman is coming in and we are going to have a conversation about creationism and some other Islamic and Jewish and Christian ideals that lead to some dispute. Hi, good morning. Are you there? 

ADNAN OKTAR: Good morning. 

MR. MAC: How are you? 

ADNAN OKTAR: Fine, thank you. Very well, thank you. 

MR. MAC: And you are the interpreter for Oktar. Correct? 

AHMET BABUNA: I am the interpreter. Mr. Adnan Oktar just said hello to you and he is fine. Thank you. Yes, I am Ahmet Babuna and I am the interpreter insha’Allah. 

MR. MAC: Ok. Good, good. 

AHMET BABUNA: (Translating the question)All right. There had been a terrorist attack yesterday. They claimed that it was done for the name of Allah. In general there are some people who reconcile Islam with terrorism, there are some radicals. We do not believe them. It is not right to blame a religion with that, however there is such a phenomena. This causes a reaction against them in Americans. May we learn your ideas about this subject? You do not have to state your idea on this but we would appreciate if you do.

ADNAN OKTAR: Where did this happen? 

AHMET BABUNA: In America.

ADNAN OKTAR: Whereabouts? 

AHMET BABUNA: Where did this terrorist attack happened yesterday you said? Which city? 

MR. MAC: Yes, we had a young man soldier, he was in our military, he was a doctor and he was very much against the war. He did not want to be deployed to Iraq and Afghanistan. He opened fire and killed thirteen people at our military base and put thirty others in the hospital. 

AHMET BABUNA: And which city is that? 

MR. MAC: In Fort Hood, Texas. In the State of Texas, in the United States.

ADNAN OKTAR: A Muslim soldier? 

AHMET BABUNA: Yes. Muslim soldier, right? 

MR. MAC: He was a member of the Muslim religion but he was an American soldier. 

ADNAN OKTAR: These are generally classic terrorists who have received a Darwinist, materialist education. They have Marxist roots. There are many communists in America. There are Muslim, Christian or Jewish communists in Britain, France, Turkey and many other places. But in carrying out a terror attack they say they are doing so in the name of Islam. But they are actually doing it as a requirement of Marxist, Leninist thinking, as a requirement of the conflict of truths, the idea of thesis/antithesis/synthesis, of Marxist thinking. Freemasonry as well has such an ideal. I mean, there is the belief that humanity cannot progress without conflict. Darwin also claimed that. It is an idea stemming from Darwin. Darwin says that animals develop by fighting one another. All living things grow toward perfection through conflict. They believe that there must therefore be constant anarchy, disorder and war in the world. Hence it is Darwinism and materialism that lie behind it. This ruthless and cruel mindset will not disappear until Darwinist and materialist thinking is eliminated. But what is taught in the Qur’an, the Gospel and the Torah is love, peace, brotherhood, compassion and forgiveness. There can be no argument about that. It is crystal clear.

MR. MAC: What does he recommend that Americans who know a soldier or know the family of a soldier that has died fighting a terrorist who follow the Muslim religion; what do you say to those Americans that say one plus one equals two that this is a part of the Muslim religion? 

AHMET BABUNA: What did you mean by one plus one is two?

MR. MAC: What I meant by that was to most Americans, it is obvious that these terrorists who attack our World Trade Center, who take over our embassies, who were fighting in Afghanistan, in Iraq and who wants to kill all of us in Iran that these are Muslims. So how do we as Americans not say “Oh, well it’s the Muslims who are trying to kill us.”? 

ADNAN OKTAR: In one of the verses of the Qur’an Allah says that ‘As for anyone who kills a believer deliberately, his repayment is Hell, remaining in it timelessly, for ever.’According to Islam, that person remains in hell forever. That is because the people who are killed there, are innocent. They have never killed anyone nor committed a crime. The verses of the Qur’an make it quite clear that anyone killing an innocent person goes to hell forever. No Muslim can kill another. If he wishes to express his ideas he does so by convincing other people, telling them the truth and with love, affection and compassion. That is what our Prophet (saas) did. "There is no compulsion in the religion." Verses of the Qur’an say that. That verse is quite clear. That is Allah’s pronouncement. If someone is compelled to convert, he will be a hypocrite. Hypocrisy means someone with an insincere belief. If someone is forced to believe, then his belief is invalid. But the person who has compelled him to believe would be committing a sin. And he would be doing something that is something that is not compatible with Islam. Education therefore lies at the root of such actions. Darwinist and materialist education in America prepares the way for such people to develop. There is Darwinist and materialist education in Britain and everywhere in the world. It is impossible for a Darwinist not to be a Marxist. That is because Darwinist theory supports dialectical philosophy. Someone who believes in the dialectic of nature, of natural history, of living things, someonewho believes in the dialectic of history would be a Marxist. And a Marxist must also be a Leninist. In other words, he must put Marxism into actual practice. And a Leninist will be a Stalinist and a terrorist. That is an inevitable outcome. It is therefore impossible for someone who signs up to the dialectic of living things, that is to say Darwinism,not to sign up to the dialectic of history and of nature. People need to be told the truth in the light of the scientific facts. Darwinism is nonsense. It is a lie. There are more than 250 million fossils that prove Creation. It is a clear scientific fact that it is impossible for a protein to form by chance. There are hundreds of proofs of this. We need to tell these facts to the American people. We must tell them to the British people and the peoples of Europe, China and Russia. I am currently active on this in Turkey. A great many people in Turkey, 95%, do not believe in Darwinism, and terror in Turkey is increasingly on the retreat. There is just the PKK that we have been unable to reach. They are continuing their attacks because we didn’t have the means for counter-propaganda against them. But apart from that, terror in Turkey has completely calmed down. That is the result of anti-Darwinist propaganda, of our activities in other words. Insha’Allah.

MR. MAC: Thank you very much for the comment. I appreciate it. We are going to take a break and Rabbi Kaufman is in the house and he joined us. We’ll come back. We are going to talk about Darwinism, we are going to talk about Creationism and how you in the Middle East and in Istanbul feel about that. And we’ll take our break and we’ll come back. We are live here at desmoineslocallive.com and we are coming back. Thanks for listening by the way. If we haven’t told you lately love this job, couldn’t do it without you. Right here desmoindeslocallive.com.

It’s 9:34 Good morning , we are live in desmoineslocallive.com. Welcome to our gorgeous day. Rabbi Kaufman is our guest today as we have Mr. Oktar live from Istanbul, Turkey.

RABBI KAUFMAN: Well I am trying to... My understanding of what he was saying was that essentially the belief in Darwinism gets people to an intellectual perspective where it undermines religion and then they become communist and whatever all of these anti religious perspectives. You are right, the problem is a matter of interpretationthatdetermines what the interpretation is. How do we apply that to two different conflicts? 

MR. MAC: Let’s look at that. Can you do that? To Mr. Oktar- How would Mr. Oktar respond to Rabbi’s statement? 

AHMET BABUNA: Rabbi Kaufman states that people killing others do so by convincing themselves that the ones they kill are not innocent, and that they are killing the criminals. That is how they think. What do you think about that? If an Imam stands up to such a person, could have said these are innocent people not criminals. What are your ideas about that?

ADNAN OKTAR: It is evident that they have no evidence or witness to state that those people have committed any offense. Their real aim is to serve the devilish temple set up by Darwin. The conflict of civilizations is a devilish theory of Darwin’s, and they are trying to put that into action at the moment. In other words, they want to set Muslims and Christians against one another. They imagine that irreligion and atheism will thus rule the world. Because at the moment it is the devout Muslims and Christiansstriving against irreligion.If they succeed to set one against the other, they believe that they will be able to make irreligion rule the world very easily. That is why they are making a special effort using such provocative actions to make them hate one another. We will not fall into that trap. Christians are our friends and brothers. We all believe in the same Allah. They are all followers of the true prophets. Of course, in my view, there have been some distortions in Christianity; as the belief in the Trinity, and also other matters. But it is nevertheless a corrupted form of the true faith. When Hazrat Messiah (as) comes he will put right those deficiencies.That is why I fully support Christians and consider it very important to collaborate with them and strive to eliminate irreligion from the world, insha’Allah. I am a herald, a student of Hazrat Mahdi (as) who will appear. Hazrat Mahdi will be in intense collaboration with Christians until the coming of Hazrat Messiah (as).When Hazrat Messiah (as) comes, Islam will rule the whole world, insha’Allah. Nobody must fall into this trap the terrorists. That is a satanic belief. They are forcibly trying to impose on the world Darwin’s belief that conflict leads to perfection. Let us strive all across the world against this satanic Darwinist belief. Christians, Jews and Muslims must collaborate on this. Because when they are divided they are weak and defeated. But when united they are very strong. When Christians, Jews and Muslims work together, Darwinist, masonic and materialist thinking will be eradicated. Nobody can stand against that power. That is why nobody must be taken in by such provocations that are intended to set us against one another. Christians, Jews and Muslims are all servants of Allah. Almighty Allah will come to the correct decision about us in the Hereafter, insha’Allah.

MR. MAC: Rabbi please. I want your comments.

RABBI KAUFMAN: There are a lot of conspiracy theories around the world and what seems to be going on is that they are coming to be conflated here in this theology that we are listening to. My, part of it is, I have trouble connecting and I think Rooster and I have trouble connecting with this theory about the masons.I think that the idea of Darwinism as an evil is also something that to a certain extent I have a problem with. Yes, it goes against the teachings of religious traditions that God created everything on the spot. The way it is. Islam is not a religion where you are just supposed to go and kill everybody who don’t believe.

MR. MAC: So you are saying that Mr. Oktar is correct. Their basic foundation belief and truth is not to go out and kill people. You agree with that?

MR. MAC: On the telephone line with us from Istanbul is Mr. Oktar. He is a famous author, has sold 80 million copies of books, worldwide on Darwinism and Creationism and how that works with Islam compared to Christianity. We kind of got into a conversation today. Mr. Oktar go ahead, and your comment or feedback please.

ADNAN OKTAR: I also have two friends who are masons. They are very good, worthy people. I do not say that all masons share that mindset, in other words. It does not mean that all communists are bad or all atheists are bad. It does not mean they are all morally deficient. But this secret, satanic temple that has been set up has a common, mass power and that is a great threat. They are no danger on an individual basis, but their mass structure, their spiritual identity, constitutes a grave threat. If Christians, Jews and Muslims are not allied together, they will be defeated by communists, Darwinists and masons, in other words by the power of this secret temple. But they will easily be victorious if allied together, very easily. And that is what will happen in the End of Times. Muslims, Christians and Jews will be allies and will eliminate atheism, terrorism, satanism, freemasonry and all evil, wrong way of thinking from the world. Islam will rule the whole world when Jesus the Messiah (as) comes, insha’Allah. However there will definitely be no compulsion, pressure or violence as this happens. It will develop with love, affection, compassion, proof, reason and beauty. We will all see this together, insha’Allah.

I have so far described some 500 facts, and they have all come true one by one. When I say something, it is not based on nonsense or unscientific and irrational. If I say something, it is absolutely founded upon evidence, and I say things I am 100% sure of. I am absolutely certain on this subject. Insha’Allah, you will see. You will see Hazrat Messiah (as) in 10-20 years’ time. You will see we have entered an age of peace, the Golden Age. Not a drop of blood will be spilled. Not even the noses of people would ever bleed. All weapons will be eliminated from the world. We will enter an age of perfect peace. But at this time the masons, some evangelical masons and some Muslim masons encourage this idea of conflict, of the conflict of civilizations. And they will continue to encourage it. We will not fall into that trap, insha’Allah. The plot to set Muslims and Christians against one another is a terrible one, and nobody must fall for it. Christians are very innocent, pure and excellent people. They fear Allah and are generally very punctilious about what is lawful and unlawful in many respects. But since their laws are different, there is a parting of the ways with Islam on some subjects. There had been corruptions on some issues. The Messiah (as) will rectify these when he comes, insha’Allah.

ADNAN OKTAR: Masons are very high quality people. I know and am friends with several masons. I am not speaking in that sense. Your being a mason is an excellent thing. People generally think of being a freemason as a bad thing, but there are also many very good aspects about masons. But what I concentrate on is the senior masons in direct contact with shaytan. You do not and cannot hear about them. Because freemasonry is a secret system, and its secrets are not revealed. My aim is to put a stop to this oppression of theirs carried out by the global secret state. Otherwise, I consider all of the well-intentioned masons free of this point and I also consider you free as well.

MR. McROBERTS:You know what, thank you, thank you. I mean, I do appreciate what you are saying. I really do. With all due respect one thing that I believe in, that’s the basic foundation of my life is, everyone has a right to say what’s on their mind. They have a right to believe what they want to believe. But further I have a right to disagree. But at the same time I respect Mr. Oktar and what he is doing. Having said all of that, Mr. Oktar, gentlemen, Mac and I want to thank you very much. This will not be the last time that you will be on our show. The last show got a great return. Great listeners that loved the conversation. We appreciate the conversation today. You are on our website, I know we are on yours. May be then we’ll have an interview soon if anything changes and get you back on again. Thank you gentlemen.