REPORTER: As you know, Muslims are being oppressed all over the world. Wherever you look, in war zones, Muslim regions, whether it be Palestine, or Afghanistan or Somalia... Whose fault is it? Are Muslims themselves to blame, or are there other reasons?

ADNAN OKTAR: Let me tell you the solution. These things are still happening because Muslims have not adopted this solution. The solution is for all Muslims to be one, and that is a religious obligation and Allah's command. It is obligatory, like praying or fasting. If a person does not pray he has violated his obligations. And the Muslim world violates its obligation if it is unwilling to unite and act as one. The best solution is a Turkish-Islamic Union led by the Turkish nation and supported by the Turkic states. The reason for me to the Turkish nation as the leader is that it is a very powerful one in terms of morals and championing Islam, a metaphysical nation with a special duty. That is how Allah has created it. The Turkish nation is the sword of Allah. By sword I do not mean going out and cutting people up, but it is the sword of justice. The Turkish nation will perfectly discharge the role of leader on this subject with its justice, moral virtues, love, affection, compassion and honesty. It has the experience and strength to do this, centuries of experience. It managed Islamic countries on three continents, very happily and using very little effort. The same structure now needs to be rebuilt; a Turkish-Islamic Union resembling a modern Ottoman Empire needs to emerge. Everyone will be at ease in such a body, Christians, Jews, Buddhists and even atheists. The whole Muslim world will live in peace. Everyone will worship as he pleases. Jews will go to their synagogues as they wish, there will be no problem in Jewish observances, and they will be treated with love and affection. Christians will go to their churches and worship as they wish, and they will be given affection and protection in all senses, material and spiritual. This will be an excellent system. But Christians and Jews are being oppressed, and Muslims are being oppressed many times over, because this is not happening, because there is division and fragmentation. The solution to this is the Turkish-Islamic Union, and if this state of affairs persists, this will be same as going against Allah. Allah says, 'Unite.' Failure to do so would be to say, 'I will not unite.' May Allah forbid! Muslims pray when Allah tells them to, don't they? When He says, 'Do not eat pork' we do not eat it. Allah says, 'Do not be divided' but they are still disunited. He says, 'Unite,' but they do not unite. That is a sin, and Muslims must unite at once. In that event they will see that everything in the garden will be rosy. A miracle will happen and all Muslims will be at peace.

REPORTER: My Hodja, we are going to be talking about various things with you You have repeated many times in your writings and many of your books that you are opposed to Darwinism.

ADNAN OKTAR: Yes.

REPORTER: Could you expand on that a bit? Why are your works on Darwinism?

ADNAN OKTAR: [Believing in] Darwinism is a miracle. It is a miracle the way that people, millions of people, professors and the like all believed in it. It is astonishing, like something out of a horror film, the way that people believed in such a preposterous lie, such a nonsensical claim. Proteins one day formed in muddy water, then a cell came into being, arms and legs emerged from the cell and human beings formed, and those human beings then built London, Paris and Istanbul; that is what evolution is. It is so insane and nonsensical, not even a child would say that. Not even a person with the weakest intellect would say it. But they saw the field had been abandoned to them, that no voices were raised in opposition. But there are 100 million fossils. Not 10,000 or 20,000 but 100 million. These fossils are the same as living things today. There has been no change. Cats are still cats, dogs are dogs, rabbits are rabbits and frogs are frogs. You bring out a piece of rock from under the ground and it is there on it, the same as living things today, as if Allah had placed a photograph there. Put that animal next to a photo of a living specimen and they are identical, and no such thing as evolution ever happened. It is scientifically impossible for a protein to form by chance. But let us imagine you made one protein. Hundreds of engineers combined to make a protein in a factory, and you need a second protein, and third and thousands of proteins all have to combine together. Protein powder eventually emerges as a result of this and is sold in boxes. We have protein powder at home, but it does not come to life, eyes and eyebrows never emerge, and protein powder does not walk around. Nothing comes from protein powder at all. I really do not know what else to say, it is all a very great miracle. But an unbelievable system totally based on lies and nonsense has now collapsed, and its adherents are ashamed to look people in the eye. I tell them to "produce one single transitional fossil." Of the kind referred to by Darwin, of peculiar life forms, half-formed with bits in the wrong places. Just one, all I ask is one, and I will give you 10 trillion Turkish lira. But nobody has ever come to claim it. So why are you lying? Where are all those transitional forms? How can you say Darwin was right? Darwin himself said that his theory would cease to exist in the absence of any intermediate fossils. And there aren't any. Intermediate fossils do not exist, and neither does your theory. Why are you misleading everyone? They have been deceiving people for 150 years.

REPORTER: So what you have done to tell people about this?

ADNAN OKTAR: The Atlas of Creationexploded on their heads like an atom bomb.

REPORTER: May we have it here?

ADNAN OKTAR: There is a hologram on the cover, of an animal in fossil and living form. A fossil fish and a living one. And an elephant and other live forms, fossilized and living.

REPORTER: So you prepared such an Atlas to refute evolution?

ADNAN OKTAR: Thousands of reports emerged when it was sent to Britain and France, but they were all like reports of disasters. They were like "We are finished," "We are perished." A Polish web site said, "An anti-Darwinist text book has shocked the authorities", Belgium says "Panic behind the scenes", Britain says "Note that Creationist advances will continue", the U.S. magazine Sciencesays "There is an Islamic Creationist movement that is still growing and has considerable influence. Harun Yahya is the greatest voice in the evolution debate in the Islamic world", Portugal says "Turks are the leading force", the Dutch daily Trouwsays "A Turkish Creationism Empire", another newspaper in the U.S.A. says "Turkey is now the Islamic world's main center for Creationism", the U.S. National Academy of Sciences says "Islamic Creationism is invading the USA", a Dutch radio web site says "The Atlas of Creation came as a hurricane in Europe", and the Christian Science Monitornewspaper says "It has initiated a magnificent lightning offensive across the world."

REPORTER: Turkey has been working hard for many years. It wants to join the European Union. This has become Turkey's dream. Do you think that dream can come true one day?

ADNAN OKTAR: Of course this dream will come true, but in this way: Turkey will establish the Turkish-Islamic Union, it will be a strong structure, and it will be the world's richest, most powerful, most prosperous and most advanced, in terms of art and science, country in the world. Turkey will be the leader of a Great Turkish Union, a great Turkish-Islamic Union. We will admit the EU into our own union. We will admit the EU into the Turkish-Islamic Union. In other words, we will not join the EU. The EU will join the community established by us, insha'Allah.

REPORTER: How?

ADNAN OKTAR: It is very easy. They expect us to be one of their members, but they will become one of ours. Simple as that, and much better. Instead of us being their guest, they will be ours. There is nothing complicated about it.

REPORTER: It has given Turkey a waiting time of 15 years. But you say that the EU will join the Islamic Union. Is that possible?

ADNAN OKTAR: Come and look me up if it doesn't happen in the next 15 years. It will definitely happen, 100%, and you will see it. That is destiny, and it is set out in the hadith. The time has come and, by Allah's leave, nobody can stop it. It will happen, that is 100% certain.

REPORTER: Do you have any evidence of that?

ADNAN OKTAR: Of course. There are very detailed statements by our Prophet (saas) concerning the End Times. In the hadith it is said that Hazrat Mahdi (pbuh) will appear in the End Times and that the Prophet Jesus will return, and all the portents of this have come about. The hadith of our Prophet (saas) known as weak hadith, invalid hadith, have come true and have turned out to be reliable. If a hadith comes true, it must therefore be totally reliable. For example, our Prophet (saas) says there will be two solar eclipses in the month of Ramadan; that happened in 1981 and 1982. He says there will be war between Iran and Iraq, and he says all these things will happen at around the same time, one after the other like the beads on a necklace. War between Iran and Iraq broke out in October 1980. Our Prophet (saas) says Afghanistan will be occupied, and that happened in 1979. He says the waters of the Euphrates will be stopped, and that happened. Our Prophet (saas) says there will be bloodshed and anarchy in the same place, and that happened. PKK terror is still going on. He says there will be eclipses of the Sun and Moon in Ramadan and in 1981 there was a lunar eclipse on the 15th day of Ramadan and a solar eclipse on the 29th day. In 1982 there was lunar eclipse on 14^th day of Ramadan and solar eclipse on the 28^th day. One after the other. A comet appeared in 1986, Halley's comet. An attack on and bloodshed at the Kaaba, that happened in November 1979, with 402 people killed during the slaughter. A sign in the Sun, and there was a great sunburst in 1996, the greatest of the last century. The disappearance of an army. The Iraqi Army vanished in the desert in the Iraq War of 2003. The devastation in flames of Baghdad, and that happened in the Iraq War in 2003. A corruption of smoke and dust, that happened on September 11, 2001. Our Prophet (saas) says that Iraq will be reconstructed. That has happened. He says the Iraqi unit of currency will no longer be valid, and that also happened. Winds and storms, such as Hurricane Katrina in 2005 and Hurricane Ike in 2008. And it is still going on. There are nearly 300 accounts, and they have all come about.

REPORTER: There will be local authority elections in March, very important elections. They will determine parties' paths and which parties will win more votes in the future. What do you, as a Turkish man of science, think? Which parties will be in front in these elections?

ADNAN OKTAR : The Justice and Development Party (AKP) will again take the big cities, in my opinion, meaning Ankara, Istanbul and Izmir, though there may be changes in the provinces and small districts. The Nationalist Movement Party (MHP) is growing stronger, and that is good. It is a party that espouses Turkish-Islamic Union. The Felicity Party (SP) is growing stronger, again in the small town and rural areas. It could also take some provinces, that is what I think.

REPORTER: Can the AKP maintain its vote of 47%?

ADNAN OKTAR: More or less. Even if there is a slight drop, because it is good for it to defend democracy, human rights, peace and brotherhood. I don't say it is perfect, but it isn't bad, it is going well. Of course Turkey has a great need for democracy, human rights, peace and freedom, so it is good in those terms.

REPORTER: We have seen the Turkish government and nation all support Gaza, the people of Gaza, and condemn Israel's actions. As you know, the prime minister spoke out very harshly against Israel yesterday. What do you think of that?

ADNAN OKTAR: The hadith of our Prophet (saas) describe in great detail how in the End Times, in the run-up to the coming of Hazrat Mahdi (pbuh), much Muslim blood will flow, there will be oppression everywhere, there will be corruption, Muslims will be leaderless and fragmented and how there will be strife and uncertainty. He even gave Palestine by name, saying that Arab blood would be spilled. These things are portents of the coming of Hazrat Mahdi (pbuh), and Allah is manifesting His name of Jabbar. He is compelling people to unite. Unity is obligatory for Muslims, it is Allah's command, and a sin not to unite. Allah is showing Muslims that this is the only way to salvation. Insha'Allah, this holy nation, the Turkish nation will carry this out and establish a Turkish-Islamic Union. Turkey is now the Palestinians' hope, and that of the Algerians, and of Afghanistan. Turkey is in any case the natural leader now. They ask what makes Turkey the leader. Allah has inspired them all to make Turkey the leader. Because the Turks are metaphysical and quite extraordinary with their moral virtue, courage, fortitude, resistance to hardship and leadership qualities. Allah has given this nation the job, and it will do it. The job is to accelerate Turkish-Islamic Union, to be instrumental in the development of the Turkish-Islamic Union. If two steps used to be taken in the past, 10 are being taken now, and the Turkish-Islamic Union has even begun taking 100. But these events will continue and grow. And nothing will stop them. There is a hadith of our Prophet (saas) which says that when one stops another will begin, and that is how it has been and will always be in the future, until Hazrat Mahdi (pbuh), my descendant, comes, says the Prophet (saas). He will unite with the Prophet Jesus (pbuh), insha'Allah, and they will cause Islam to rule the world. We will see these fine days, and they will all happen in the next 10 or 20 years. You will remember how I said that would happen.

REPORTER: So it would seem from what you say that the Turks will be Muslims' leaders in the future. Do you not think other Muslims, Arabs, might not oppose this?

ADNAN OKTAR: They have no other option. Syria wants to unite with Turkey, and Iraq. And if Syria and Iraq want it, so will everyone else. Azerbaijan wants it, and Armenia wants to unite with Turkey. Georgia wants it, so what else needs to be done? It is a union that will also include Lithuania. It will be a union that includes Lithuania, Armenia, Georgia, Azerbaijan, Kyrgyzstan, Turkmenistan and East Turkestan and all of them. As far as Libya. A Turkish-Islamic Union will emerge that stretches as far as the coast and interior of Africa. Turkey has prior experience, experience from the Ottoman Empire. And this time round, the errors of the Ottomans will not be repeated. The perfect aspects of the Ottomans will be adopted, but not their errors or deficient aspects, and a perfect union will result. This also means salvation for America and China and Russia. It means salvation for Israel and for the whole world. Thanks to it, the EU will be very rich, and will be stronger and able to be at ease. Because we have all the oil and minerals. They are all in Turkish-Islamic countries; we have all the underground resources. We will sell them all those riches, and we will use them and build facilities, and we will construct civilizations, and they will be at ease, and so will we, insha'Allah.

REPORTER: Some politicians say the future belongs to China, or that India will be the leader. That America and the EU will fall. But you say the Turks will be the leader. What makes you say that?

ADNAN OKTAR: China has currently struck rock bottom because of the economic crisis, it has lost all its strength. That means it needs Europe and America, and since Europe and America will collapse, China will collapse, too, and when you cut two legs off a table the whole thing collapses, the third and fourth legs, as well. That is why China needs Europe and America. But the Turkish-Islamic Union is not a country in need of anywhere; it is on lands with wealthy resources, with a workforce and a young population, a dynamic and active population. And it is developing. It is like a 9-year-old child, while Europe has grown old, and is in its 70s, while America is 50-60 years of age, about to enter old age.

PRESENTER: There has been a Turkish-Kurdish problem for 25 years, war against the PKK, but Kurds are Muslims and Turks are Muslims, and you call on all Muslims to unite. What kind of solution do you foresee to the PKK and Kurdish questions?

ADNAN OKTAR: The PKK are just a handful of starving foxes. They resemble foxes you chase away and then they spring up somewhere else. They come and go and suffocate the people. We will liberate our Kurdish brothers, people of our nation, our own brothers, from that scourge. By Allah's leave, we will lead them to freedom and well-being. Because the PKK does not allow them to live. Let them go up to the mountains and graze their animals, set up their tents and hold weddings and festivals and enjoy themselves. Their salvation will come with the Turkish-Islamic Union. Once the Turkish-Islamic Union is set up we will tell the PKK to stop what it is doing, and they will give up within 24 hours, and there will be no more problem. At once, they will all hand in their arms and the matter will be totally put to rest. This is a scourge inflicted on the nation by [atheist] freemasons taking advantage of the fragmented nature of Muslims and the Turkish nation. Like the rest of Turkey, the southeast is very religious. They wondered how to spread irreligion there, decided what to do, and inflicted a communist-Stalinist organization on our Muslim brothers there, on our own citizens. The time for their liberation has now come. This will stop when the first seeds of the Turkish-Islamic Union are planted. But the PKK will exist so long as there is division, atheist Zionists will still spill blood in Israel, and there will be all kinds of disgrace, perfidy, hardship and suffering. Because that is what division leads to. Can someone defend himself if one is in one place, a leg somewhere else and an eye somewhere else again? One's arms and eyes have to work as a whole to defend oneself. Nobody can defend himself with one eye closed and one hand tied behind his back. We will tear this blindfold off and become one single body as the Turkish-Islamic Union, and believe me, all problems will be resolved within 24 hours. They will be unable even to think of doing anything, let alone actually do it, and terror will come to a complete end. We will also liberate Israel, by Allah's leave. There are walls in Israel as you know. They have imprisoned themselves. Israel has made itself its own prison. We will tear those walls down. Let people cross and do business as they like. Let them come to Turkic countries and settle and set up home. Let Israel live in freedom. Why should they all be squeezed in there? They are also servants of Allah and members of an ancient true faith. No matter how many of its provisions have been done away with, it is still an ancient true faith. And they are the People of the Book, the people of Israel are descended from the prophets. We regard them as valuable and love and respect them. The Jews are our brothers. It is the same with the Christians. They love the prophet Jesus (pbuh). Their hearts are full of love for him. Like us, they have a profound love for the Prophet Jesus (pbuh). Like us, they respect the Prophet Musa (pbuh). It is excellent they should have remained so devout, and a very great miracle, masha'Allah. We will embrace all devout Christians and Jews, we will personally protect and watch over them, and we will strive for their wealth and well-being, insha'Allah. That is also the task of the Turkish-Islamic Union, insha'Allah.

REPORTER: You say that we will embrace the Jews. But look what Jews, Israelis are doing to Muslims. What do you say to that?

ADNAN OKTAR: It is atheist Zionists who are doing this, in other words, vile, fanatical killers. These have ceased to be human. They are psychopaths who have sold themselves to satan, worship satan and make satan their god. They are atheists, not Jews. They have nothing to do with religion or faith. They are also ruining devout Jews and hurting them. We will save our Jewish brothers from this suffering being inflicted on them; we will save our devout, Jewish brothers. There is a vile system, and they are very disturbed by it. It is atheist Zionists that hold the influence in the government. They have one leg in America and one in Israel. They have their own state, a global state established by the atheist masons, and atheist Zionists act out of great loyalty to it. Atheist Masons and atheist Zionists work hand in hand, and this happens as a result of that union or alliance. Muslims do not unite, but atheists do. Atheist Zionists are currently united and in a state of complete alliance with the atheist masons. The masons are the best organized group, the people who best defend and watch out for themselves, in the world. They are few in number, but they run the world. Yet if Muslims were united, if they were to obey Allah's command, like the masons do, if they were to watch out for one another, then the [atheist] masons would vanish without trace. I mean they would eliminate them intellectually, on the level of ideas. Otherwise we have no wish to eliminate the masons physically. We want to eliminate their false ideas and evil aspects.

REPORTER: I have formed a general conclusion from everything you have said. You are calling for a Turkish Empire, like the Ottoman Empire, and you want the Turks to lead the entire Islamic world. Is this just a dream of yours? Or do Turkish politicians share it? Do other Turkish politicians, such as Erdoğan or Abdullah Gül share it?

ADNAN OKTAR: In my view, at least 95% of people in Turkey share it, in all of Turkey. The great majority of the parties in Turkey – with one exception – share this view. The MHP [Nationalist Movement Party], The BBP [Great Union Party], the AKP [Justice and Development Party], the Democratic Party, the Felicity Party and even the CHP [Republican People's Party] all share it. This is a line that wants the Turkish-Islamic Union and wants Turkey to be its leader, because that is what Ataturk wanted. The CHP cannot say it does not want something that Ataturk did. Deniz Baykal is very respectable and well-mannered, very rational, a devout person, and I do not think he opposes this view.

REPORTER: Everyone knows Turkey is a secular state, some Westerners say it will turn into an Islamic state in 2015-2020. Do you agree?

ADNAN OKTAR: Turkey will always be a secular state. It is useful for it to be secular, and it will remain secular in the future. There can be no hypocrisy under secularism. That is the excellent aspect of secularism; it puts an end to hypocrisy, the greatest danger for Muslims and the worst disaster. Muslims have a duty to desire a system that puts a stop to hypocrisy. This is also part of the moral values of the Qur'an. The reference in the Qur'an to "there is no compulsion in the religion" is a reference to secularism. Christians will worship as they wish and Muslims perform their religious obligations as they wish, while Jews behave how they wish, and atheists and masons live by their own beliefs. But the state will intervene if they try to harm anyone else. But there is no interference in ideas, that is one feature of the secular state. That is why it is so important for Turkey to remain secular.

REPORTER: You say that secularism is beneficial, that it protects against hypocrisy. Are we meant to understand that Muslims are hypocrites?

ADNAN OKTAR: No. It eliminates the possibility of hypocrisy; it does away with such a system. Non-believers can all say what they are, without fear. But if you construct such a system that if you say you are irreligious I will kill you, then everyone will be a Muslim, even though they do not believe. What does that mean? It means everywhere will be full of hypocrites. Whereas people need to speak honestly, and to say they are irreligious if that is what they are. Or if they are Christians they must say they are Christians or Jews if they are Jews. If they do not, a most dishonest and false climate emerges. There is no falsity in Islam, only sincerity and honesty, and this will make honesty possible. Muslims will be proud to say they are Muslims, atheists will say they are atheists, that they do not believe, may Allah forbid! And nobody will touch them. That is what secularism will mean.

REPORTER: Thank you very much.