INTERVIEWER: Good evening, viewers. Greetings to you all from Istanbul. We have another excellent programme for you. Our guest today is the writer and thinker Adnan Oktar, honorary president of the Science Research Foundation [BAV]. Welcome to the programme. You do us a great honour.

INTERVIEWER: First of all, we would like to get to know you. Who is Adnan Oktar? Let us become acquainted with you. Then I have a number of questions for you. InshAllah, our programme will be a most excellent one.

ADNAN OKTAR: InshaAllah. I was born in Ankara in 1956. I have finished my primary and secondary education in Ankara. I later won a place at the Academy of Fine Arts, and so moved to Istanbul. I studied for a while at the Interior Design Department of the Fındıklı Academy of Fine Arts. I then enrolled at the Istanbul University Department of Philosophy because these acts of terror and anarchy were widespread there. There was no peace at all there, just terror and anarchy. I spent another while there like that. Then, as you know, I began writing my books. Then our foundation, the Science Research Foundation, was founded. We now have another foundation, even though the BAV is the most known one. However, we mainly concentrate on our books, CDs and work on the internet.

INTERVIEWER: What was the aim behind the foundation of this institution? In which areas and fields does it serve the public, or rather the nation?

ADNAN OKTAR: It is a nationalist, religious, spiritual foundation that espouse the idea of a Great Turkey. It espouses a Turkish-Islamic Union, and is a progressive, modern and laicist foundation that follows the line laid down by Ataturk.

ADNAN OKTAR: The writer must embrace all of society. Every section of it; believers in Allah and atheists, Christians and Jews, and must treat them all as first class citizens and protect them, and strive day and night for the good of the nation and the motherland, and must be sincere in spirit and thought.

INTERVIEWER: Have writers in Turkey fulfilled that obligation, in your view?

ADNAN OKTAR: Some authors in Turkey are on the side of anarchy and chaos. They insist on their side being in the right at all costs. They want the other side to be given no rights and to be silenced, which is very wrong. For example, I am a nationalist and supporter of religion and spiritual matters, but I also want atheists to be able to live as first class citizens. I want them to enjoy complete freedom, too. No behaviour of mine will make them feel any different, and I will want all their natural and legal rights to be protected in the best way possible. I wished all writers, thinkers and scholars were on this line.

INTERVIEWER: There is talk that it is the commentators who determine the agenda in Turkey. If commentators discuss a subject one day, the next day, other press organisations and media organs, and in particular the bosses of the major media groups, will set out the country’s agenda. Do you agree with that view?

ADNAN OKTAR: In my opinion, every nationalist, everyone who espouses religious views, every rational, devout person who wishes to see a Great Turkey must be very careful over being led by the nose of the press. They need to put a question mark after any report that comes their way. Doing away with unquestioning belief represents a most effective way of opposing the other side. So what is to be done? Three or four web sites can be launched, for instance. A real news portal can be included in them. Anyone wishing to learn the true facts can look there, and will therefore no longer blindly believe in that newspaper’s report. Healthy scepticism brings with it enormous benefits, and is a powerful form of action and show of power. It will break the power of the forces concerned. Some writers regard the public as naïve and childish, and they will believe whatever they write, and this will deal them a severe blow.

INTERVIEWER: You often refer to the Turkish-Islamic Union, Mr. Oktar, so let us turn to that. Should Turkey enter the European Union, or establish a Turkish Union, or else a Turkish-Islamic Union? Which will be of the greatest benefit to the Turkish public?

ADNAN OKTAR: The ideal thing is the formation of the Turkish-Islamic Union. That means all Islamic countries adopting a single leader, all Turkic countries having a single leader, because their populations are generally Muslim. However, Turkey adopting the role of older brother in the region will also mean the protection of Armenian interests, an effort being made to enrich them, too, and the protection of Israeli interests, peace in Palestine, and maintaining a benevolent watch over the whole area. This most urgent task is also of great importance with regard to the European Union. It will be a blessing and a joy for the EU to be rid of terror and the fear of terror. The Turkish-Islam Union will do this most efficiently. All suffering and conflict in the Islamic world will come to an end. The Turkic states will take a major step in the direction of civilisation along the European line. Because the Turkic states are potentially very wealthy. The region is a very wealthy one. But they are not well organised. Turkmenistan and Azerbaijan have a huge potential for example. A union of these would represent the greatest union in the world.

ADNAN OKTAR: They have unbelievable underground resources, in terms of oil and minerals.

ADNAN OKTAR: Indeed. Everything. Not a day must be lost in founding the Turkish-Islamic Union. We need it now. It will be in everyone’s interests, NATO, the EU and the whole world. China will find its position improved, and Russia, especially Russia. And the EU. America will become richer and stronger, in other words, it will be beneficial and advantageous in all respects. But it is essential that Turkey be its leader.

INTERVIEWER: Many Turkish citizens have their doubts when it comes to Turkish membership of the EU. Some political parties are particularly cool towards the idea. Do you think Turkey will join the EU, or is the EU toying with us in terms of membership?

ADNAN OKTAR: Turkey can enter the EU as the leader of the Turkish-Islamic Union, but Turkey’s joining without being leader of the union would means its complete disappearance. It will also mean the disappearance of Islam, and it will lead to the end of any concept of Turkishness, Allah forbid, and to the end of Islam. This would be a terrible danger, a threat capable of eradicating our national identity and existence. But if we join as a Great Turkey, leader of the Turkish-Islamic Union, then this would be compatible with Turkish honour and be exceedingly beneficial.

INTERVIEWER: Turkish youth appears to have taken a step towards the West in recent days. Do you think that young people will accept the Turkish-Islamic Union? Because the West is involved in various cunning stratagems regarding Turkey, and many people are aware of these, and even political parties. But the course of events is not running in that direction.

ADNAN OKTAR: If we become the leader of the Turkish-Islamic Union, this will be an honour, and Turkey will be very powerful, and this will also work to their advantage. This is a system they will like and that will also enrich them. Otherwise, Turkey will be a burden on the EU, an economic burden, and will lose its national identity, Allah forbid. And that is a terrible danger.

ADNAN OKTAR: In my view there is no such distinction as that between Turks and Kurds. They are all Kurds, because everyone who says he is Turkish, is Turkish. But if they want to behave rationally, then they should support Turkish leadership of the Turkish-Islamic Union with all their hearts. And when the Turkish-Islamic Union is established, all our people will be better off, including those in the south-east. They will be able to make full use of that wealth. The alternative, Allah forbid, means being taken in by Israel’s strategy, the ruses of Israel’s godless, atheist Zionists, and that would be a huge mistake. We can never permit that, and let me place that on record.

INTERVIEWER: That would mean Turkey being split up, and a likely foundation of a Federal Kurdish State in northern Iraq.

INTERVIEWER: We will be coming on to that. As we know, the Iraqi regime fell after 9 April, 2003, and the Americans occupied the country. This had a huge impact on Turkey. After the Turkish Parliament said “No” to the 1 March bill [proposing US use of Turkish facilities], various conflicts arose in the country. Why did America invade Iraq, in your eyes?

 ADNAN OKTAR: The reason for the US invasion of Iraq is the decision taken by Freemasonry. World Freemasonry is a system made up of the alliance between the atheist Zionists and their young wing or the sub-organization, Masonry. Masons and atheist Zionists have established a system. Decisions are taken according to the requirements of the system. Once the decision has been taken, they say it was taken by whoever it was, such as Bush deciding to invade Iraq. Bush has no power to take a unilateral decision to invade, nor the means, nor the support. Nor the experience. There is only a single power capable of having that decision taken and acted on: Freemasonry and atheistic Zionism. Atheist Zionism is moving, in its own eyes, gradually but with very sure footsteps. Taking the south-east of Turkey and founding a Kurdish state is part of the plan. Divide and rule. It would be a terrible error to permit the establishment of a Kurdish state, the imaginary Kurdish state there. Israel would have no difficulty in swallowing it.

 INTERVIEWER: Will Turkey just stand by and watch?

ADNAN OKTAR: The only solution is the Turkish-Islamic Union, the frequent repetition of this, demanding it become a reality, with no state taking offence at the idea. It would actually favour all states and benefit everyone, so there is no need for anyone to be uneasy.

INTERVIEWER: How would the establishment of a Kurdish state affect Turkey? Turkey also has neighbours. There is Syria, and Iran, and Jordan, and Saudi Arabia. Would they just sit back and watch? They, too, are opposed to the idea of founding a Kurdish state.

ADNAN OKTAR: A Kurdish state, Allah forbid. Here we are talking of Israel’s atheist Zionists, although I love Israel’s truly devout people, sincere Jews. They believe in, pray to and fear Allah. They scrupulously watch over what is lawful and what is forbidden. Such people do nobody any harm. But atheist Zionists, I say, have no holy scripture and are cruel. We need to be on our guard against their cruelty. Their aim is first to take over the entire region, and then to oppress the whole world. To enslave the world. True Jews will fiercely oppose this and never accept it. Such oppression is severly condemned in the Torah. It is forbidden in the Torah. I produced a book on the subject, based on the commandments in the Torah. This was a collection of worthy passages and descriptions from the Torah. These stipulations are crystal clear. The concept of Turkishness and Islam must be constantly kept in mind, the state must support it, there must be backing for such groups, charities, communities and associations, and it is most important to work together, especially with the conservative and religious sections of society. What I mean is that the Nationalist Movement Party [MHP] and the Felicity Party [SP] should establish very close links between them. Similarly, the Great Union Party [BBP] must also establish such bonds. And the True Path Party [DYP]. And the whole of the right, including the Justice and Development Party [AKP], and the conservative section of society must unite and look out for one another. The same goes for the Motherland Party [ANAP]. All of them.

INTERVIEWER: As you know, in the wake of the occupation of Iraq conflict between Shia and Sunni sects erupted, for which reason militants affiliated to Sadr have been fighting the government in recent weeks. Are MOSSAD and Israel, or else America, responsible for the Shia-Sunni problem, or is it a factor operating spontaneously within the society?

ADNAN OKTAR: It is again atheist Zionists and Masons doing this. Take the Shias, they are the lions of Allah, true Muslims, genuine Muslims. Sunni Muslims are also wholehearted, genuine Muslims. This division is madness, and a ruse. No rational Sunna or Shia should become involved in such terror attacks, kill other Muslims or hurl bombs at mosques. That is completely unacceptable.

INTERVIEWER: Because Sadr issued a statement. Both Sunni and Shia places of worship are being attacked at the same time, simultaneously. How can any equilibrium be established if Shia do this to Sunnis?

INTERVIEWER: Many media groups and bodies are raising the issue. But let us turn back to Turkey and the subject of the headscarf. What is your view of the headscarf issue?

ADNAN OKTAR: The public should be a bit more relaxed on the subject. There are devout people and people who are less inclined to live fully according to the faith in Turkey today. It is important that these people be able to live in peace and security. They need to be given guarantees. Guarantees need to be given concerning laicism. That needs to be done once their concerns have been addressed and a consensus has been reached. Nothing can be achieved by threats and pressure, especially at the current time. Compromise is essential. For example, the CHP should ensure a common decision by reaching agreement with other parties, parties of the left, everyone. The girls who wear the headscarf are very well brought up, immaculate. What possible harm could be if there are three or 10 people wearing headscarves in class? Why should that pose a threat to Turkey? What is the point of distressing these children? Why should these girls be distressed? They suffer when the take off their headscarves, feel a moral unease, so let them wear the headscarf in class. They used to wear them in my day, and nothing ever came of it.

INTERVIEWER: As we know, after emerging from the Ottoman Empire in 1917, Iraq then passed into British hands, and the monarchy was founded in 1920. There are some 3 million Turkmen living there. To date the Turkmen have been exposed to assimilation policies, policies of annihilation and intimidation. But in the post-Saddam period the Turkmen have been unable to enjoy their rights of representation in either the political or cultural arenas. Is this all a British stratagem?

ADNAN OKTAR: The Turks of Mosul and Kerkuk are very heroic, and nobody can ever force them out. They have been displaying that heroism for many years. Let me repeat that, Allah willing, nobody will ever be able to force them out. Things will remain just as they are now. In other words, Kerkuk is Turkish, a Turkish region. It is a region belonging to Muslims, and can never change its nature. The same goes for Mosul. There is no point in pushing the matter. The fact is that these areas can be regarded as a province of Turkey, in the same way as Konya or Eskişehir. These are issues that will be fully resolved with the establishment of the Turkish-Islamic Union. It is important that people be given that awareness. It is very important that our brothers there should feel loved and for them to be given moral backing. That is one danger in this process of modernisation. It is, as you have just said, highly significant. When I walk about I see the young people are very unaware. They are unaware even of the existence of anywhere such as Mosul or Kerkuk.

INTERVIEWER: Yet it was left to the British following the Lausanne Treaty. But Mosul is an extension of Turkey.

ADNAN OKTAR: Of course. ADNAN OKTAR:   This consciousness raising should be conducted as a national policy. It should be taught in classes on national security. It must be taught in history classes. It needs to occupy a serious place on radio and television and in the press. We would feel just as outraged if they attempted to take Konya from us as by their attempting to take away Kerkuk, it is exactly the same thing. In the same way that we would never turn Konya over to anyone else, by Allah’s leave, neither shall we let anyone else have Kerkuk. But this awareness must be kept in the forefront of people’s minds. Everyone must support it, the MHP, the BBP and the SP.

ADNAN OKTAR: In the parties of the left, of course. They are also the children of the nation, and of course they will also be unwilling to see such a thing, as they, too, have a nationalist mindset and a nation to support.

INTERVIEWER: When we look at Iraq, the right wing in Turkey has for years now been ensuring the Turkish presence in Iraq, but the Turks in Iraq expect the same backing from the left as from the right.

INTERVIEWER:  The Turkmen want the administrations and governments that come to power to regard the Turkmen as a national policy, within the framework of Turkmen sensitivities and our Foreign Affairs Ministry and Turkey's’ national policy. But the course of events has not followed that direction, and certain actions by the government in Turkey have angered the Turkmen. For example, there are currently some 300 to 400 Turkish companies in northern Iraq, yet not even 20 around Kerkuk. What is your evaluation of that?

ADNAN OKTAR: Turkish businessmen there are making a mistake. They must go to Kerkuk with a joy and enthusiasm of service rather than from a sense of making a profit, because the region is full of Turks, it is a province of ours. It should be as if they are opening up installations in Konya. The state needs to encourage that, and the press and the television. It may be that they have never thought of it, but that they will if reminded, since it is by no means impossible.

INTERVIEWER: The importance of Iraq lies in its importance to Turkey. Both for Turkey and the wider Turkic world. Iraq’s sympathy for Turkey is evident, as Iraqi politicians have frequently visited Turkey in recent years. They exchange ideas with Turkey. What changes do you think are needed in Turkey’s policy towards Iraq?

ADNAN OKTAR: Turkey’s policy on Iraq is of vital importance. Turkey’s main aim must be to ensure that Iraq’s national integrity is not impaired and to enter into very close relations with Iraq, again as if it were a province of ours. It is the first country, I think, we should unite with in the framework of the Turkish-Islamic Union. They are also considering the subject of uniting with Turkey. That would be a wonderful salvation for Iraq and would give rise to an amazing economic boom, peace and economic regeneration. The people of Iraq will be freed from the current suffering and pain in a matter of days, and wishing to come under Turkish protection will be a great blessing for Iraq.

ADNAN OKTAR: I mean that they will say they want to fall under the Turkish axis in terms of government administration. It means their wanting Turkey to be the main factor in the governance and running of the country. In other words, Turkey will be a guarantor state, in the same way that Turkey is a guarantor state in Cyprus. The relationship will be the same as that between Turkey and Cyprus.

ADNAN OKTAR: It would be enormously in America’s favour. Nobody will die, America can go and found companies and engage in such commercial activities as it wants when the administration is in Turkish hands. The present system is bleeding America white. The minute Turkey enters the region as a guarantor power, terror will immediately come to an end. The whole thing will come to an end. The Arabs will be happier, and the Turks, and the Kurds, everyone.

INTERVIEWER: The Kurds have their own worries. Especially at times when the Turkish Army crosses over into northern Iraq. Kurdish leaders are saying that, just like America, Turkey wants to occupy northern Iraq, Kerkuk and Mosul.

ADNAN OKTAR: Because they are unacquainted with the Turkish Army. The Turkish Army is full of love. It wants everyone, not just Turks, to be well-off anf happy. It has gone to various countries. It served in Bosnia and all over the place. It offers peace, wealth and abundance wherever it goes. When it enters the region, the Arabs will be much better off. It will bring wealth and abundance to Arabs too, and the pressure on the Turkmen will be lifted, which is only right and humane, and there is nothing in that to upset the other parties. In other words, they will rejoice at the lifting of the pressure on the Turkmen, rather than being saddened by it.

INTERVIEWER: We don’t have much time left, and are rapidly approaching the end of our programme. That being the case, what would you like to tell the Islamic world in particular, people living in Iraq and the Arab countries, and indeed the entire world?

ADNAN OKTAR: The Turkish-Islamic Union will very definitely become a reality within the next 10 to 20 years. I ask people to remember my words. I ask them to pay attention to every individual year.. There may be much pain and suffering, but these are mere birth pangs, and the birth itself will be quite perfect. Islam will illuminate the world like a globe of light, inshaAllah. Islamic moral values will prevail. The Islamic world will see the coming of the Mahdi. The Prophet ‘Isa (as) will return. We are heading towards a breathtaking civilisation, a breathtaking age of happiness. All this pain and suffering has been told in the hadiths, and determined within the course of destiny. Let nobody be alarmed. The Turkic world, the Arab world and all our other brothers are heading towards a world of happiness and well-being. America is also suffering at the moment. But it, too, will be relieved and freed from its suffering. The pain being experienced by Israel will be lifted and all the region will breathe a sigh of relief. That is the direction in which we are headed. However, neither must we take this for granted. All Turkish nationalists, religious nationalists, supporters of Ataturk, the rational left and everyone must all act together around this concept of brotherhood. That is of the greatest importance.

INTERVIEWER: One last question. You speak of the Turkish-Islamic Union, but laicism predominates in Turkey today. After the AKP came to power in particular, it was as if a number of fundamentalist activities were imposed on the press agenda. Is the Turkish-Islamic Union compatible with laicism? Will laicism have an impact on it?

ADNAN OKTAR: Yes. Laicism will bring forth Islam. Laicism is a system that eradicates hypocrisy. There can be no hypocrisy where there is laicism. Hypocrisy is a dreadful scourge. It is a secret force, like cancer. It is a scourge. But laicism eradicates it from society. Islam is lived in the best possible way in laicist societies. In the most honest and genuine manner. That is why a true Muslim must regard laicism as a blessing.

INTERVIEWER: Because whenever the word Islam crops up, people think of it as something diametrically opposed to liaicsm. Looking at Turkey from Iraq and the outside world, the Turkish media and press do impose this idea on society.

ADNAN OKTAR: No. Laicism is a system that brings with it peace of mind to the system. Everyone will be able to relax, not just us. It is essential that the Jews be at peace. In other words, if the Jews are suffering, so will you be. If atheists are being oppressed, you can know no peace, either. That is what Allah has created. So what right have human to keep silent on it? Open speech is good, keeping it concealed is wrong. Laicism guarantees all this.

INTERVIEWER: InshaAllah, everything you have said will come true and the whole world will live in contentment and peace. 

ADNAN OKTAR: That is destiny. Nobody can change destiny. The destiny appointed by Allah will take place, inshaAllah.

INTERVIEWER:  Thank you for having us and accepting our request.

INTERVIEWER:-  Many thanks.

INTERVIEWER:  Many thanks.

INTERVIEWER:  Allah be pleased.

INTERVIEWER:  Dear viewers, our thanks to the writer and thinker Adnan Oktar, honorary president of the Science Research Foundation. Until we meet again, goodbye.