ADNAN OKTAR: Estagfirullah. I am delighted. You have honoured me.

LE MONDE-INTERPRETER: You were widely spoken of in France a few months ago. There were many reports in France about your work regarding the theory of evolution. My first question is; are you thinking of publishing the second volume in France?

ADNAN OKTAR: The second, third and fourth volumes are currently in the course of being translated. The fourth volume has been made ready. The translation of the second volume is complete, while volumes three and four are still ongoing.

LE MONDE-INTERPRETER: Will you use the same system to distribute them that you did for the first volume?

ADNAN OKTAR: Do you mean in terms of distribution or publishing techniques?

ADNAN OKTAR: France has had enough copies of the book. But there are many other French-speaking countries.

LE MONDE-INTERPRETER: So does that mean you will not be sending the second, third and fourth volumes to the schools to which you sent the first volume?

ADNAN OKTAR: No, but sales are very high at the moment, we only have enough copies to meet that demand.

LE MONDE-INTERPRETER: Could you give us a few figures regarding print runs?

ADNAN OKTAR: Five thousand copies are normally printed, five thousand in one print run. When they have gone, another five thousand are printed, and so on. There is great demand for the book in Europe and America, particularly from universities, members of teaching staff.

LE MONDE-INTERPRETER: In terms of your campaign, have you achieved your ultimate aims with the book?

ADNAN OKTAR: There is a huge difference between Nicolas Sarkozy’s earlier statements and those he is issuing now. Nicolas Sarkozy is someone who represents France. He had made very joyous statements about his belief in and love of Allah. That is the impact of this book. Opinions in French high schools in general have changed enormously to the great disadvantage of Darwinism. I receive many messages and e-mails on this subject. This realistic behaviour among the French public and Nicolas Sarkozy’s open defense of religious belief have increased my own affection and regard for the French people and Mr. Sarkozy many times over. I congratulate him; despite the pressure from the Freemasons, the intense pressure from the Masonic lodges, he bravely and determinedly continues to espouse religious belief.

LE MONDE-INTERPRETER: You mean Mr. Sarkozy....

LE MONDE-INTERPRETER: Certain circles in France and members of educational faculties have expressed various concerns. What are your views, your interpretations, of those concerns?

ADNAN OKTAR: Could I have some examples of those concerns?

LE MONDE-INTERPRETER: The College de France, for example, is one of our most esteemed institutions. But they have not issued any particularly positive views regarding the book.

ADNAN OKTAR: I have received positive opinions from hundreds of scientists. And the collapse of Darwinism is so obvious as to be apparent to anyone of normal, or even lower than normal intelligence. It can no longer be resurrected, and there is nothing left for anyone to say now that all these tens of thousands of pieces of fossil evidence have been set out. As I said to the French people, if you have a single piece of evidence that proves or even supports evolution, let us put it on display in front of the Eiffel Tower, but they were unable to come up with any… Darwin made transitional form fossils a requirement for his theory. He says that his theory is true if transitional form fossils are found. If there are no transitional fossils, my theory is untrue, he says. We have shown there are no intermediate form fossils; we have thus confirmed Darwin’s own words, and there is no such thing as evolution. What is more, it is technically impossible, scientifically impossible for a single protein to come into existence that way. No proteins, regarded as the fundamental building blocks of life, have ever been observed to come into existence by chance. Proteins cannot emerge spontaneously. Darwinists are actually aware that they have been defeated, but are childishly continuing their resistance. Darwinism has been shown to have collapsed all over the world. That defeat is the main reason for the fear of the book. If people are afraid of a book, the ideas in it must be true. People are genuinely fearful. We are looking at a fear of the facts and the birth pains of the old world turning into a new one. Yet the existence of God is a matter for joy and enthusiasm, a thing of beauty. I am telling people they will not die but will live for ever, and they are themselves aware of that truth. This is something to rejoice over. Is it better to disappear for ever or to live for all eternity? To live for ever, of course.

LE MONDE-INTERPRETER: Creationism is supported by a great many fundamentalist groups, including Christians, in America and Europe. What is your objective in your campaign in Europe and other countries, and what is the reason for your initiative?

ADNAN OKTAR: For everyone to believe in God, for all to be brothers and love one another under God’s union, an end to terror and anarchy and to live in happiness in the world as children of a single family.

LE MONDE-INTERPRETER: I would like to ask another question, is the aim of the book to convert France to Islam?

ADNAN OKTAR: No, I want Christians to be Christians, Jews to be Jews and Muslims to be genuine Muslims. I am delighted, for instance, at the way Nicolas Sarkozy is a devout Catholic, and I love him as a brother.

LE MONDE-INTERPRTER: What is a true Catholic, in your view?

ADNAN OKTAR: Someone who does no harm to others, who loves others, does no harm to his neighbour, who loves God and the angels and who believes that he will have to account for himself in the hereafter. Love, brotherhood and peace are the objectives of all faiths. The same applies to Tony Blair; the British prime minister changed enormously following the arrival of the book there. From being a materialist with socialist tendencies he began having issuing very excellent and sincere statements about his belief in God. This is a cause for rejoicing, and in terms of belief my respect and love for him increased many times over. I have much more respect for him in terms of his belief in God, because we believe in the same God. That will lead to many positive changes. People will see this over the course of time; it will have a powerful impact on morality and character, and I hope that people will find this most pleasing.

LE MONDE-INTERPRETER: To put it another way, is the main aim of the book to bring religion back to the centre stage?

ADNAN OKTAR: Yes, to enhance belief in God all over the world, for people to live in joy and happiness as a single family under God’s protection, and for the world to be like paradise. It is the complete elimination of war, terror and anarchy, and for the money spent on arms to be spent instead on human happiness. These things will soon come about. This will all assume perfect form with the return of the Prophet ‘Isa (a.s.); the second coming of the Prophet ‘Isa (a.s.) is a reality, not a fantasy, and the world will be amazed by it. The coming of the Messiah is one of the greatest phenomena that will shock the world.

LE MONDE-INTERPRETER: You do you describe yourself within that initiative? Is yours a religious organisation or grouping?

ADNAN OKTAR: I am just a researcher, a man of science, a writer. I am an ordinary, humble Muslim. People have their own circles of friends, and I have mine.

LE MONDE-INTERPRETER: Because an organisation needs to have a sound financial structure to distribute such an expensive book on such a scale in France. Just the rental of such premises as a house must imply the existence of such financial means, must it not?

ADNAN OKTAR: The whole of the French coast is dotted with villas, it is full of lovelky houses, there are tens of thousands of beautiful houses in the country. So what if one of these belongs to Muslims?

LE MONDE-INTERPRETER: How does your organisation finance such things?

ADNAN OKTAR: We earn money in the same way French people do, in the same way as wealthy French people make it. Our methods are just as normal as theirs.

LE MONDE-INTERPRETER: Most researchers, scientists and authors in France do not make huge sums of money, of course. But you....

ADNAN OKTAR: The house is not mine, and I make no money from my books. I just write them, the publishers do the rest. The publishing house has sold 8 million of by books in a year, but I make no profit. This is a considerable sum. It is perfectly normal for the publishers to distribute the book in such quantities out of those earnings. In addition, businessmen buy copies and give them to their friends and hand them out. Some businessmen buy and hand out 10 or 20 copies at a time. That means very rapid distribution. Many of my friends and members of the public hand copies out on that scale.

LE MONDE-INTERPRETER: Mr. Guillaume says that it is inevitable that in a country such as France it is inevitable that someone unknown publicising himself in such a powerful manner will raise concerns and question marks.

ADNAN OKTAR: There is no need for the French public to be concerned, I wish the best for the whole world and respect even atheists, Marxists and non-believers. I believe they are all first-class citizens and possess a secular mindset myself. I think and espouse the idea that everyone should be able to freely hold his or her beliefs. I always support modernity, science, love and friendship. I am a man of peace, a man who respects all beliefs. There is therefore nothing for them to be worried about, and I am working for their own happiness.

LE MONDE-INTERPRETER: I am astonished that you include Marxists in that. You do not say that you respect them in your books. You do not seem to harbour much friendship for Marxists or Zionists in your writings.

ADNAN OKTAR: Friendship is one thing, respect is quite another. I respect them, in other words I believe they should be able to live in freedom as first-class citizens. In addition, I do have some Marxist friends. I have many Marxist and Jewish friends. They stay in my home as my guests. There is an intellectual struggle, but that struggle does not mean we have to be enemies. God creates all ideas; it is quite normal at all times for there to be people who believe in God and others who do not. This is something set out in the Qur’an, the Torah and the Gospels. It is perfectly normal. God creates their belief, and there is nothing extraordinary in it.

LE MONDE-INTERPRETER: So is it God who created Darwinism?

ADNAN OKTAR: Of course. And it is Good who created Marx, and Lenin and Mao. And it is God who created Musa and Muhammed and ‘Isa. God creates both thesis and antithesis.

LE MONDE-INTERPRETER: What are the movements that have inspired or influenced you? I can certainly see the influence of Said Nursi.

ADNAN OKTAR: True. Because Said Nursi is a man of peace, who opposes conflict and terror, who looks for love. He is opposed to fanaticism, harshness, intolerance or extremism. Those are my views, too. He is a strong proponent of democracy, and I share that view.

LE MONDE-INTERPRETER: Would you then describe yourself as a Nurcu [a religious group]?

LE MONDE-INTERPRETER: Fetullah Gülen also has a very powerful grouping or organisation resembling the Nurcus. What do you think about him?

ADNAN OKTAR: Fetullah Gülen is very humane, with a way of thinking very close to my own. He is very loving and compassionate and strongly opposed to violence and terror. He respects all beliefs and ideas. He is humane and loving in all things, basing himself on love and compassion. That is in any case what the faith requires; he implements the requirements of the faith, as do I.

LE MONDE-INTERPRETER: You are currently better known abroad than you are in Turkey; you are not much mentioned in Turkey, but are widely discussed overseas. What kind of role do you wish to adopt in your own country?

ADNAN OKTAR: I want the same thing in Turkey. I want everyone to love and respect everyone else, for us to be a family, to be happy. I want us to be understanding and tolerant, because people can hold any belief, and all beliefs must be respected. I believe that this is only possible with a strong, secular system.

LE MONDE-INTERPRETER: The supporters of Said Nursi also espouse those values. But there is one concern; as if other things may lie hidden beneath the surface.

ADNAN OKTAR: This is really very crucial. I am telling the truth here, as this is my firm belief. For example, I greatly admire French breeding, French manners and French aesthetics, and have no wish for this system to collapse. But I want them to believe in God, I want a France that believes in God and the hereafter and that strives for human happiness, along the lines of Sarkozy. I make that clear in my own life. I have always respected the European conception of beauty, of friendship, of love and of cleanliness. Because in my eyes beauty, love and peace are vital requirements. I do not wish this to be blackened by a crazed, fanatical interpretation, an insane conception of religion. But this can apply to all beliefs. If people want secularism, for instance, this can be converted into a very harsh, atheistic system, or else can be implemented in the form of true, democratic secularism in which people are free to hold their own ideas. The essence of the matter lies in the sincerity of the people implementing it. I am an honest person. I will obviously not espouse a system that will turn round and strangle me. I want people to be happy and smiling. I want children to run around the streets full of joy, for them to have nice homes, for everything to be pleasant. A despotic system will obviously disgust me, and Islam in any case involves no such thing.

LE MONDE-INTERPRETER: I would now like to ask your views of the political crisis currently taking place in Turkey. For example, what are your views on the critical nature of relations between the governing party and the military?

ADNAN OKTAR: There is again the same concern. The government needs to strongly emphasize this. It needs to stress its honesty regarding the ideas I have outlined. Because Marxists, materialists and atheists are right to want to have the right to live in freedom. They want to live as first-class citizens and to be able to freely state their own beliefs. That is perfectly normal. Stressing this and providing the requisite guarantees would be more than sufficient. To put it more clearly, the government must guarantee and protect everyone’s beliefs and ideas, allow them to live freely, and make sure they are able to live as first-class citizens.

LE MONDE-INTERPRETER: Closing a party elected by the majority...

ADNAN OKTAR: There is no need for closure, a warning would be quite sufficient. It is the court’s decision of course, but I would not recommend such a course. But everyone must respect whatever the law says and whatever the courts decide.

LE MONDE-INTERPRETER: Do you feel closer to the AKP [Justice and Development Party] compared to previous governments? Do you see the AKP as more religious than its predecessors?

ADNAN OKTAR: Deniz Baykal [leader of the opposition CHP] has adopted a completely different style of late. He has made strong initiatives drawing religion into the spotlight. He has issued excellent, enthusiastic statements saying the faith belongs to us, the country belongs to us and the nation belong to us, and espousing the moral values of the Qur’an. In my view, Deniz Baykal’s ideas have become at least as healthy as those held by [Prime Minister] Erdoğan. This is a style the CHP has not adopted for many years. This is a very welcome development, and clearly reveals the influence of my book. It is a clear reflection of its huge impact in Turkey.

LE MONDE-INTERPRETER: Does this mean that your books are also highly influential in Turkey?

ADNAN OKTAR: Of course. Because the level of people in Turkey who do not believe in Darwinism stands at 90%. That is the highest level in the world, inshallah.

LE MONDE-INTERPRETER: Is it an indication of improved civilization and education?

ADNAN OKTAR: Of course. It shows how important culture is, and how convincing people find the scientific facts and evidence.

LE MONDE-INTERPRETER: Some scientists, I am not sure of the specific group, maybe TUBITAK [The Scientific and Technical Research Council of Turkey], some scientific council, have said that your ideas are unrealistic. But I cannot remember the particular name involved.

ADNAN OKTAR: Not one scientist in Turkey has read my book and remained unaffected by it. Those who reject it are those who have not, do not, read it. Because of the collapse of their beliefs they are treating it as a defeat, a matter of pride. That is the problem. So irresistible has the book’s impact been that there is no room for argument at all. Although two or three pieces of evidence would normally be enough to totally demolish a theory, we have produced thousands. Tens of thousands of fossils make the invalidity of evolution crystal clear.

LE MONDE-INTERPRETER: I have heard that you have had some problems with the Turkish legal system. What is the current state of affairs?

ADNAN OKTAR: The defeat of Darwinism has had a huge negative effect on Freemasonry. It has really stunned them. We know that there has been intense correspondence, with order being issued to Turkish Freemasonry for the pressure on me and the Science Research Foundation to be intensified and the struggle against us to be stepped up.

LE MONDE-INTERPRETER: You have been compared to the Church of Scientology in America in terms of the similarity your organisation bears to them. What do you think of that?

ADNAN OKTAR: That is rather ridiculous, because they are hold a heretical belief and are not a religion. Their claims are even more ridiculous and irrational. For one thing, they deny the existence of God, so how can there be any similarity between us?

LE MONDE-INTERPRETER: How would you describe your movement? As a religious sect, a religious organisation, or a cult?

ADNAN OKTAR: Just as a group of friends. There are religious groups of friends everywhere. There are thousands, tens of thousands of groups made up of religious friends all over the world; ours is one of those. There are devout groups of friends in every city in Turkey, in every town. This is known and takes place all over the world, and is in any case a requirement of the faith.

LE MONDE-INTERPRETER: We have mentioned your problems with the justice system. One of your friends is described in the press as the cause of many of these; Edip Yüksel. What would Mr. Oktar like to say about him?

ADNAN OKTAR: Our beliefs are different. I am a member of the People of the Sunna, while he opposes them.

LE MONDE-ÇEVİRMEN: Could you set that out in full?

ADNAN OKTAR: The people of the Sunna are the largest denomination in the world of Islam as a whole, in the same way the Catholics are in the Christian world. But he rejects the beliefs of the people of the Sunni. That is the difference between us.

ADNAN OKTAR:  He rejects both Sunni and Shiite belief, and has his own unique belief.

LE MONDE-INTERPRETER: Edip Yüksel has appeared in articles that have been published on the internet. He has claimed you have described yourself as the Messiah.

ADNAN OKTAR: No Muslim can claim to be the Messiah or the Mahdi. The Messiah will have no parents when he comes, whereas my parents are still alive. That is a ludicrous belief. Perhaps he meant to say the Mahdi. He says I have claimed to be the Mahdi. That is also impossible in the faith. No Muslim can make such a claim. People can only hope and hold someone in high regard, allowing the possibility that someone they love is the Mahdi. Nobody can stand up and say he is the Mahdi. Because that means he will definitely go to paradise in the hereafter, and that is a departure from Islamic belief. I look at everything rationally, and there can be no odd or heretical ideas in my belief system. What I have to say has always been scientifically proved, based on convincing evidence.

LE MONDE-INTERPRETER: You have said that the second, third and fourth volumes of the Atlas project will be coming out. Have you any other projects on the go?

ADNAN OKTAR: I have a number of books as well, I am working on books.

LE MONDE-INTERPRETER: Could you describe these as subject matter?

ADNAN OKTAR: I have a book called The Superficial Faith and am preparing the second volume of it.

LE MONDE-INTERPRETER: Could you tell us a bit more about the superficial faith?

ADNAN OKTAR: The book criticises insincere behaviour. It is about insincere speech and actions and criticises these, or rather, it investigates the psychology behind them… The most important thing in our case, in the slanderous allegations made against us, is statements forcibly signed, under torture, under threat of death, in police custody. There is no other evidence against us. But these statement are legally inadmissible as they were taken in the absence of a lawyer. Yet the case is still going ahead on the basis of these. That is the problem.Thesewere taken under threat of death and torture, and we were forced to sign the. We have been accused of all the crimes in the world.

LE MONDE-INTERPRETER: The case has not yet been resolved, has it?

ADNAN OKTAR: No verdict has yet been reached, but that is the main issue in the case. The invalidity of statements taken without a lawyer. The Supreme Court portrayed these as admissible. We issued petitions opposing that. We saw that all the police statements had been admitted in the written response from the Supreme Court. That really amazed us. Yet the Supreme Court has also issued its own judgements that statements taken without a lawyer are inadmissible. The Supreme Court then issued a judgement saying these statements were admissible, despite the court decision to the contrary. The court has now changed course in the light of that Supreme Court judgement, has changed it to our disadvantage. This is an amazing and extraordinary state of affairs. Because all conceivable crimes were confessed to in police detention, by force. Our hands were tied behind us and we spent a week sitting on concrete, blindfolded. We were forced to sign these documents under those conditions, under threat of death and torture, and that applies to just about every one. These are the kind of difficulties we encounter in our intellectual struggle. Whereas we want to freely defend our beliefs. We do not want to be pressurised. It is a disgrace for my books to be banned, for instance, banned in France or other countries. That is a violation of respect for ideas and beliefs.

LE MONDE-INTERPRETER: It has not been banned in France.

ADNAN OKTAR: Yes, it has. We have sued and hired a lawyer for that purpose.

LE MONDE-INTERPRETER: Has it been banned from being sold in book stores, or en masse?

ADNAN OKTAR: This regards its being sent to schools.

LE MONDE-INTERPRETER: The interviewer says this is not unique to you, and that only books approved by the Ministry of Education can be sent to schools in France, and this is not something specific to you. If they wish to obtain a copy of your book they can get one from a book store or library.

ADNAN OKTAR: So you mean there is therefore no problem.

LE MONDE-INTERPRETER: They are all on your web site in any case.

LE MONDE-ÇEVİRMEN: Was this the Council of Europe or the Commission?

ADNAN OKTAR: the Commission of the Council of Europe. No book should ever be banned. Unless it contains libel or threats.

ADNAN OKTAR: I thank you. Please forward my greetings and respects to the people of France. Say that I hold them in deep affection. I would like to state my admiration for French manners and aesthetics.

LE MONDE-INTERPRETER: Have you any plans to hold a conference in France?

ADNAN OKTAR: I am not allowed to leave the country, so that is impossible at the moment.

ADNAN OKTAR: I wanted to come to France for a conference. But you must say that I was immediately banned from travelling abroad.

LE MONDE-INTERPRETER: I imagine this is just until the court reaches a decision?

ADNAN OKTAR: How long the case will go on or when the hearing will be?

LE MONDE-INTERPRETER: The verdict, when will the verdict be?

ADNAN OKTAR: I expect so, as I have been subject to legal proceedings for eight years.