ANDREW MARR: Thank you very much for this interview. Could I ask Mr. Oktar first of all when you first became aware of Darwin and Darwinism?

ADNAN OKTAR:My first meeting with Darwin was when I was in high school but especially in the last years of the high school the gravity of the matter attracted my attention.

ANDREW MARR: You argue not only that Darwin is unscientific, but also that he is a danger, that he is a danger when it comes to war and terrorism zone. Can you explain a little bit more about why you think that?

ADNAN OKTAR:Hitler, Mussolini, Stalin and Lenin and many other famous terrorists and the present time terrorists all clearly say that they have been under the influence of Darwin himself. Hitler has clear statements about it, Mussolini clearly stated it. Stalin, Lenin and Marx, they have, each of them, clearly stated that they have been influenced by Darwin. Without Darwin terrorism is almost impossible.

ANDREW MARR: What about today's terrorists like Al-Qaide and so on for instance who would say that they are motivated by a bit extreme religous views?

ADNAN OKTAR:When we look at the members of such terrorist groups like Al-Qaide, we will see that in their youths they have been mostly educated in the USA or in Europe and that they have undergone Darwinist education, that they have completely embraced Darwinist way of thinking. Later on in their lives, they get into terror and try to reconcile terror with the religion. This is in fact an utter deception. A person who genuinely loves and fears Allah feels great joy. He loves people very much and he meticulously avoids hurting people. He has fear of Allah and knows that he will give an account of his deeds on the Day of Judgment. But these terrorists have no such sense. On the other hand these people can bomb everyone, women and children with the blink of an eye and their consciences are very easy about that. It is evident that these people are not of a character that can be reconciled with religion.

ANDREW MARR:Can I ask a little bit about the way you operate? You put out a lot of very large books, lavish books. Are you, what is your relationship with American Christian Creationists, is there any kind of agreement, any kind of relationship at all?

ADNAN OKTAR:It was ten or fifteen years ago, when we were in contact with the American Christian Creationists. They came here for our conference and delivered their speech. We had a very limited contact in terms of culture and in other respects. Other than that we do not have a serious connection.

ANDREW MARR: Can I ask what the major differences are between your creationism, your view of creation and the Christian one?

ADNAN OKTAR:First of all I have to say that they argue that the world, the Earth, was created in 6 days. This is, of course, incompatible with scientific facts. It is an extremely incompatible statement. The Earth is millions of years old. The creation of living things also has a history of millions of years. Our explanations, on the other hand, are very rational, accurate and they are all based on evidence, based on fossils and laboratory studies. They are very reasonable and convincing. On the other hand the explanations and the statements and the bases of our Christian friends do not seem to be so scientific. Consequently they are not convincing.

ANDREW MARR: You publish books in French, in German, in English and DVD's to many other languages. What do you want to achieve in Europe and America as well as in countries like Turkey?

ADNAN OKTAR:First of all I would like all the people in the world to be sisters and brothers. I want wars, fights, terror and anarchy to come to an end. The entire world is beautiful, the people in the world are also very beautiful. We can live very happily, beautifully. The lands of the Earth are broad. Both in economic and social terms the world is extremely compatible and prosperous to make all people live in peace. It is incomprehensible that this anarchy and terror rages despite this. This is the evil application of an evil plot and is a mocking of satan, he plays with people. Satan deceives people saying that they are created by chance and that everything happened by chance. The fact is, however, it is impossible for even a protein to come into existence by chance. There are about 100 million fossils proving creation. Darwinists do not see this, they ignore them. We see that a very weird evil plan is in progress. I strive to eliminate it.

ANDREW MARR: Is there a worldwide battle going on between Darwinism and faith? And if there is who is winning?

ADNAN OKTAR:Of course, faith has won this war. That war between Darwinism and faith is over now. Only the small details of this world has been left. There surely exists a cultural war, a scientific one. Because there exists a deception in front of us. First of all fossils are being hidden. This is a crime. People are being deceived. Although it is known that proteins can not come into being by chance, this is not expressed. People are not told that skulls are fake. Many hoaxes are being hidden from people. All these things need to be told to people in a very clear way. When you look at the 95% of the world states, you will see that Darwinism is being protected on a state level. No other ideology in the world history has been protected in such a way. In a great part of the world, Darwinism is being protected under a system similar to a despotic regime. This is wrong, an anti-democratic movement.

ANDREW MARR: In Turkey quiet a lot of academics, proffesors and so on, feel under pressure, even under threat when they teach Darwinism. How do you respond to their fears and why for instance do you not allow a website by Richard Dawkins to be seen in Turkey? After all this is presumably an argument about free speech for both sides should have the right to put their case.

ADNAN OKTAR:On the very contrary. When you look at the university exams or the exam of another school, people are forced to believe in something in which they do not have faith. For example, although they do not adopt Darwinism, they are forced to accept Darwinist statements in their answers. However, for example, I do not believe in Darwinism. When a question is asked to me in the exam, I should be able to easefully say that I do not believe in Darwinism. But this is not the case. If I say that I do not believe in it, it is deemed that I do not know the answer. This is an example, of course. This, of course, not happens exactly like this. For example, many questions are asked about Darwinism which are not scientific. There is a specific answer they want but it is wrong. Even though people know that it is wrong, they give that specific answer. This is what is anti-democratic, what is coercion and force. And Darwinism is being protected on a state level on a very official way. In England for example a professor was forced to quit his job from the Royal Society. And a very similar thing has happened in Turkey too where a Turkish Professor was again forced to quit his job just because he said that he believed in Creationism and not in Darwinism. These are actually anti-democratic attitudes.

As about Dawkins' internet site, yes I do support freedom of speech and everyone's right to discuss their own ideas in front of the public and I personnally invited Dawkins to a discussion so that we would be able to discuss our ideas together in front of the public in a very open way but he did not accept my invitation. What does discussion mean? This means that I will listen to his views, and also want people to hear him. ButI also want people to hear my views. In such a case it is impossible to talk of an anti-democratic attitude. Besides, in his site Dawkins made grave insults, that is why his site is closed. That is to say, it is not closed because of a scientific statement he made but because he made indecent insults. If it were you, you would also do the same thing. You would also close that site.

ANDREW MARR: Finally can I just ask how he would explain people unfamiliar with his argument why it is that Darwinism, which most people watching this program would see as a scientific theory, what is the connection between that and violence or terrorism?

ADNAN OKTAR:Well, for instance, let's look at Hitler's statement from his book, "My Fight" He says: "Nature is a fight between the strong and the weak. It is an absolute victory of the strong over the weak. If this were not the case, there would be a continual degradation in nature. One who lives needs to fight. In this world where ongoing fight is a law of life, those unwilling to fight have no right to live. Thinking otherwise would be to despise nature." This is a quotation from Darwinism. For instance Francis Galton, you know, is a cousin of Charles Darwin. He has brought forward the theory of eugenics. "The publishing of the Origin of Species in 1859 by Charles Darwin has been a major turning point in my personal and mental development as well as humanity's concept in general." You know he borrowed the concept of eugenics from Darwin. It suppossed that weak and disabled people should be eliminated. This perverse belief is sourced directly from Darwinism. In Hitler's time, thousands of handicapped people were murdered. They were burned or exterminated by other methods. Look at, for instance, Darwin's statement about "superior races' right to exterminate other races", he said that "in a near time that would perhaps not be as long as centuries civilized human races will eradicate wild races". This is Darwin's own statement. Civilized human races will eradicate wild races from the face of the earth. What does this mean? They will wipe the weak, for instance, the Asian tribes, or blacks or Gypsies off the face of the Earth. Darwin says so. This is an utterly a statement of terror. What can be more obvious than this?

ANDREW MARR: Do you think that you will see the day when Darwinism was no longer taught in schools in universities?

ADNAN OKTAR:Well I want you to believe me that in ten years time Darwinism will no longer exist in this world. People will be very suprised at the span of time in which they have went on believing in Darwinism. Because there is a spiritual side to human existence. And Darwinism fails to explain this. For example I see you, your watch and my watch form in the same spot in my brain. This is something extraordinary. For example, I see the electric current coming into my brain as an image, in the brain's vision center. This is something very extraordinary; Darwinism can never explain this. For instance, your voice and my voice form in the same place in my brain. My brain perceives the electrical current as voice. This is the most perfect system in the world. No musical instrument can produce a sound with such quality. Moreover, there is someone in my brain hearing it. This is quite extraordinary. There is someone who sees the full-color image in my brain. The brain is pitch dark yet inside my brain, I see you with all your brightness. Darwinism can not bring an explanation to this. Who sees it, it also can not explain this. And it explains all of these by chance. It is something like, Darwinism equals to chance and chance equals to Darwinism. People will be very surprised at this. I assume that at most in ten years time all this will come to an end and the world will tend towards a single religion. Jesus (pbuh) will come. Jesus (pbuh) will descent and the entire world will be amazed at this. Mahdi (pbuh) will come, people will also be amazed at this. There will be a Golden Age during which all people will live in peace and in utter happiness. So let me give this piece of good news to my European brothers and sisters.

ANDREW MARR: Thank you very much indeed for doing the interview.

ADNAN OKTAR:I also thank you.